2/27: MORE KISS HOF DISCUSSION AND THOUGHTS

Been doing press all day for That Metal Show and almost everyone is bringing up the Kiss HOF stuff with me. It is no doubt the story of the week and since it broke on my show last Friday when Ace called in many are discussing it with me. It’s interesting to hear everyone’s take on all of this. It’s also been interesting reading everyone’s comments here on this site and the loads of email about it. I get and understand ALL sides of this. People who actually take the time to fully listen to and read what I say realize there is no agenda here but being a fan and giving MY opinion when asked. I respect yours even if it differs from mine. Just like I respect your decision to go see the current version of Kiss, even if I decided a while ago it’s not for me. There is SO much misinformation out there. Not only about what I say and feel (anything positive doesn’t make a good headline) but about the whole HOF process to begin with. In a nutshell I think this whole thing again comes down to Gene and Paul not wanting to go down reunion road with Ace and Peter at all, and not wanting to open a huge can of worms like the MTV Unplugged. Again, I was there, once Ace and Peter came out for two songs it was a reunion avalanche they could not go away from. When you spend 12 years telling people (believe it or not) it doesn’t matter who is behind the makeup, you can’t bring Ace and Peter out and get a huge reaction and remind everyone it does matter! Eventually Kiss wil be a franchise with no original members in those personas. That is where this is all heading. Going back to the original band hurts selling that concept and is bad for the current Kiss business model. I don’t believe it is any real hate against Ace and Peter, it is just a bad business decision and we all know Kiss knows business! I don’t agree with this decision, but get it from a marketing standpoint.

 

There has also been a familiar cry from Ace and Peter detractors that “they had their chance, they fucked it up”. True, they will be the first to tell you they are far from innocent in their conduct at times while a member of the band. But what exactly does that have to do with now? NOBODY wants a reunion tour again. I sure don’t! Nobody can go forever. But it seems the past keeps getting thrown out there as a reason for the HOF issue. Why? It has nothing to do with the fact that the original four guys are the ones being inducted and a song or two is all anyone is looking for one night only. Nobody is also mentioning that these guys have been clean and sober for many years now. People change with time. A couple songs would have only damaged one thing, the current Kiss marketing plans. And I GET THAT. If I was trying to sell what was coming and owned the business of Kiss like Gene and Paul do I can’t say I would feel different from a BUSINESS angle. But we were always told the fans were the boss with Kiss. And no denying the MAJORITY of the fans who fought so long and hard to see this day are upset. But I still feel no performance in this instance (because the HOF decided only the original four are going in) is better than a current band performance which you can see any time you want pretty much.

 

I am curious if they all show up. To me it’s clear if you read the recent interview that Paul is annoyed with the whole process (rightfully so), the fact they were snubbed for 15 years, and the fact the HOF is ignoring other members for induction (again, the case can be made rightfully so). But most artists who complain about it still end up showing up. Axl Rose didn’t. he knew it was all a play for a reunion if even for a photo op and stayed away. I honestly don’t think the HOF cares that much if Kiss plays. Getting them in the same room together is a victory enough for them. Now we wait and see what happens next. Do all four guys show? What does the HOF put on since there is no performance from the band? Is there so much fan pressure that a last minute performance gets pulled together? One more thing; fans did not get Kiss in the HOF through voting. It’s a nice thought and the fans being so vocal about it helped sway voters, but the actual fan vote is minimal and can not alone get a band in. If it did bands like Kiss, Rush and Alice Cooper would not have been snubbed over a decade! If the HOF would have put Kiss in when they were first eligible in 1999 none of this would be happening, because the original band was still together then from the reunion! And we all know the fact that Kiss, like them or not, should have gone in first time eligible, NOT 15 years later! More soon no doubt.. Again, ALL opinions welcome here as always.

Comments

  1. It is ridiculous that the originals won’t play together. Kiss hasn’t been Kiss for so many years now that nobody would want them to reunite anyway. Play a couple of songs together and bury the hatchet. Gene and Paul can go back to playing Kiss, while Ace and Peter can do their own thing.

    • Firehouse says:

      I have been a fan since 77′ and was a member of the KA. Only saw them twice in 2000 on the “farewell tour”. Great shows, and a dream come true. Like most here I have been annoyed that garbage like Blondie and Madonna get in the HOF but not this great band. That being said this is the biggest “fuck you” to their fans that Gene and Paul can perpetrate. The two of them always talk about the fans, this, the fans that but when push came to shove they shoved it up our asses. Between “Kiss Coffins” high ticket prices and all of Gene’s marketing crap this version of Kiss is little more than a Vegas review just like the “Mick Jagger” review Stones on tour. Classless and clueless after 15 years of fighting to get them in they pull this. No reason to watch or celebrate what should have been the greatest night in Kisstory. Hopefully they rethink it in the next few weeks.

  2. I also believe that the HOF is crazy limiting it to the original four members. Eric Carr and Bruce should be in there with them.

  3. The classy thing to do was simple. Show up and play sans make up or costumes. Just street clothes or a suit and tie. Play a tune with ace and peter and then bring kulick up and do a tune. Finally bring Thayer and singer up and do one last song. Who cares if those three guys are inducted or not? It’s the hall of games that is keeping them out. Gene and paul could easily have declined if they’re really that put out by how the hof is handling this. Besides in a famous contest those guys aren’t going to be recognized anyway. It’s wrong of the hof to handle the induction this way but it’s all they’re willing to give kiss. However! Im sure a generous donation could change all of it?

  4. I don’t think I’ll mind if KISS ( that is, Gene,Paul,Pete and Ace) doesn’t play. They’ve all said their peace, we all know where they stand. I think we also know that they’ll “play nice” on stage and there’ll be smiling and lip service, patting each other on the back,maybe. I hope whoever plays their tribute performance is an actual KISS fan though, and not just someone that will look good schmoozing on camera. I have a sinking feeling that this is more or less the final chapter on that period of KISS. They’re getting inducted, they’re going their separate ways. No need to keep kicking the horse. Not all divorces end amicably.
    I can see also why Paul would say that other periods of the band should be honored- especially since Eric Carr was in the band for something like 11 years ,and in my opinion added a second life to a dying band. Paul’s book comes out around the time of the induction,so this “controversy” will only help his book sales-he’s not going to cave in and say “okay ,we’ll play” (another example of this being a business decision,as you say Ed, and I agree with you). Personally, I applaud both Ace and Peter for more or less taking the high road in all of this.

  5. Beth Milligan says:

    You may be right that at this point it will be great if all four get up on stage, without any performance. I think you have thought this out very well and your analysis is spot on. Tragic how this all could have been avoided. The RHOF has proven to be worthless as a respectful reservoir of our rock and roll heritage. 15yrs to get KISS in and SO MANY others not even in sight yet. They are truly the most pathetic aspect of this whole discussion.

  6. flashrockinman says:

    I meant no disrespect toward Ace. Anomaly is the best KISS-related album of original material by any current or former band member since the 80s, in my opinion. I’m really looking forward to Ace’s next album and maybe Peter will have one too.

  7. Eddie, what do you think about this? I know KISS could never pull off a full reunion tour. But, what if Ace and Peter joined back up with Gene and Paul and planned one last huge show. They could book a stadium and charge 500$ a ticket and i’m sure people would pay it. They could rehearse for several months to make sure everyone is in good shape to play a 2-3 hour show. They could market this for a dvd, live cd, netflix, direct tv….whatever. They would probably make more from one final show then they have in the last 10 years. After this, KISS should end. One final blowout. Just curious what you think?

  8. Bottom line is that Gene and Paul can do what they want, and they will. They have been, and always will be, business people first, musicians/artists second. Regardless of what the fans want, they will do what they believe is best for the KISS brand. Eddie is dead on 100% correct.

    If Gene really wants to make a stand, none of them should show up. They should schedule a huge outdoor free concert that same weekend in Cleveland. Tell everyone that they want to thank their fans for the support, but they want to do it on their own terms. Take 5 minutes to make a special acknowledgement of Peter, Ace, Bruce and Eric’s family at the beginning of the concert, but then have the current line up perform.

    The only way though that happens is if it makes business sense for Gene & Paul.

  9. Scott Mattevi says:

    The HOF should induct ALL of the members of KISS!!! Eric Carr, Vinnie Vincent, Mark St. John, Bruce Kulick, Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer all made important contributions to the band’s musical history and it would be the classiest way to bring them into the HOF. Eric Carr and Mark St. John are no longer with us but a tribute to them would be nice to see as well. There is absolutely no reason that these other members should be excluded from the induction. We all know what they look like without makeup anyway, so why not a full on jam with all of the living members of KISS??? No Reunion wishes, just a great tribute to a great band and all of its members!!!

  10. I am not a big KISS fan, but I can understand why the fans are upset. First, like it or not the KISS brand is owned by Gene and Paul. Whatever they say goes, and thats all there needs to be said. As far as the hall of fame , that is Jann Wenner’s baby and not really a true hall of fame so who cares who goes in and who doesnt. It seems like the HOF is inducting bands like KISS and Van Halen strictly to generate a buzz. Im sure they will put Pantera in at some point, and that will generate a lot of buzz too.

  11. Hey Ed!!! I posted something the other day, I guess it did not make the cut.
    Anyway, I wanted to say that I think this is getting more mediatic as days go by. I bet Genne and Paul are enjoying this, even though Paul has officialy stted he is tired abou t the subjetc.

    I’m not a big hard core fan of KISS, I like them and have been privileged to see them twice live in the Psycho Circus tour and the Reunion Tour. Shows were basically the same, but this is something you have to see if you are like Rock or Metal to that matter. I think their are influential in terms that they broke a genere to the masses, but musically I think they are low in musicianship, even though they have very good songs, it was not until better musicians came in the 80’s. I think that is a fact, an many people would say it. That does not take off their influence in many artists.

    It is sad to see this childish issue among 60 year old folks, really. To me, being a drumer, it is also sad, not only the use of a persona owned by Peter, but that Eric has to somehow imitate Peters jazzy type of technique, when eric is an amazing drumer and did a great hard rock job his first time in the band.

    This is really stupid!

  12. Eddie, isn’t it entirely plausible that the HOF knew exactly that by stating only the original four were to be inducted? In essence it meant the kiss of death to having any kind of performance? Let’s be honest, the Hall didn’t really want them in, so by doing it this way they get to save face by saying “Hey, we tried… it’s Gene and Paul that are the problem.” At this point it is all he said/they said. And none of it really matters. I don’t need to see a full makeup performance by any variation of the band to celebrate the event. I enjoy all lineups. But I admit, I am probably in the minority there.

    • I don’t think the HOF has any clue about Kiss beyond the original four 70’s version of the band. IF they had a clue and respect for the band they would have extended the induction to at least some other members. Yes, without question the original band is most iconic and started it all, but I can see the case for sure to induct others and understand why it’s easy to be upset by it depending on what era of Kiss you were into. But as I have consistently said you can’t pick and choose. Either original only as it is, or ALL the members.

      • dan mcgovern says:

        was the reason just due to the fact that the other members like kulick etc. are not eligible because there not in the hofs time frame?

  13. Michael P says:

    Hey Eddie why don’t Ace and Peter show up and perform with other musicians. That would be just as good. That would interesting having Gene and Paul watching that from their seats!

    • Because they or Kiss do not run this event

      • I still say Ace and Peter should book a show in Brooklyn somewhere the night of the induction. They should get together for the entire month of March and rehearse their ass off and invite all the musicians you know will be in New York for that night that were influenced by KISS to come and play with them and completely ignore Gene and Paul and the RRHOF.

  14. pete lytel says:

    At this point ALL of this drama is a joke. First of all nobody cares about all of your great ideas as to how it should or could go down. As if any of you work for Kiss or the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, Second, Kiss don’t owe you a thing. Third, you really truly dont know any of the guys as a real person but you’ll hurl insults all day and night at them because you didnt get your way…cry babies. Youre no different than a fat, white, middleclass, loser screaming at the tv while watching football. As Shatner said “get a life”.

  15. God knows how much love I have for Paul and Gene. Fact is, I think their music is ingenious. But for God’s sake, the love of St. Peter, etc, etc. : the only other bands that got as much utility out of their first 5 years were the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, the latter of which they competed against and beat! This band was actually bigger than Led Zeppelin at one point! They got more utility out of their original lineup than all of their other ones PUT TOGETHER! Talk of their other lineups is practically superfluous, Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr… notwithstanding. You know, this should just be handled better by Paul and Gene, they should be more gracious towards Ace and Peter; that makes sense from a business standpoint. When I want to like their new record and they bash Ace and Peter…it’s distasteful. And the truth is is that all four, with their gigantic egos, imploded Kiss the first time, and then they did it again! All four of them screwed it up. When Ace and Peter signed on for the reunion there should have been a provision that if the tour went over X amount of dollars they could renegotiate; Ace and Peter have been plagued with bad management.

  16. Of course the original lineup should play, are you kidding? In street clothes, or what would be cool is if they switched their personas, Gene in the space makeup, Peter as the demon, Paul as the cat, Ace as the starchild….you only live this life once, it is the last time to honor a band that was…wait for it…bigger than Led Zeppelin. Who else in that Hall can say that? ….I don’t hear anything.

  17. No..they shouldn’t switch personas…they should put the makeup on and play ..why would Tommy and Eric even want to impede this? Tommy and Eric should give this their blessing. Life’s too short for this complete nonsense.

  18. Since the very first memories of my life, I’ve always been singing. Great part of these years, I’ve been playing in bands (still doing it at 45) and even if I’m not famous and rich, I can state one thing for sure. Talent is important, technique is important, rock attitude is important but the most important thing, to endure and face the test of time, is being clever, smart, focused on what the vision or mission is. Obviously, Gene and Paul were, Ace and Peter not. I perfectly agree with what Paul said about HOF, so if they want to celebrate ONLY the birth of Kiss, they just wouldn’t show up or at least, if they want to please the fans, go there in street dress with Ace and Peter, shoot a couple of pics and that’s it. KISS are 40 years of rock history, Ace and Peter were important at the very beginning, but without them we, the fans, received milestone records as Creatures, Lick it up, Animalize, or Revenge thanks to Eric Carr, Vinnie Vincent, Eric Singer, Bruce Kulick, Mark St. John, TT. KISS is a reason of life, a way to stand against the critics of people who doesn’t understand the dream of being a different persona. KISS is a vision experience, a brand, a trademark. KISS is “dream big”, despite of which member is behind the mask. KISS followed any little step of my life and I personally thank each member of the band. This one, is the only reward they shoudl be interested of. Thanks, Renato

  19. Eddie, you’ve got it on the money. It was a business decision in the end. Paul and Gene love the KISS brand, the same as Bill Gates loves Microsoft. At this point forward it’s all a PR move, or what they feel will benefit them best in the long run. Nothing wrong with that. I anxiously await Ace’s new album, and will be curious about the next KISS album. Sorry Peter, your stuff isn’t my thing…but good luck.

  20. Gene and Paul, quite frankly, could have hired just about anybody, even you Eddie Trunk, as replacements and the fans would have accepted it. That’s why all of this romantic talk of ..”so and so’s contribution to Kiss” is inflated. Those replacement guys stepped into a made situation. To try and equate them with the originals is laughable. Kiss survived because of Gene and Paul, nobody stepped in and saved Kiss, that’s absurd.

  21. Mike Hebert says:

    This band started with 4 unique people their the ones that built this machine. Go ti a Kiss concert 80-85% of the songs are from the 70’s line up that’s the music we all want to hear.
    Oh and Tommy and Eric you are not the space man and the Cat man so keep on making your money but for those of us that know Ace and Peter can’t and won’t be replaced in the heart of true KISS fans.
    FAN SINCE 1975

  22. Eddie, do you think that the Kiss reunion would have happened if they would not have done MTV Unplugged?

    • Great question, don’t know. Kiss did need help at that time. The perception of success in the 80’s was somewhat exaggerated. Success in mid and late 80’s for sure compared to early 80’s, but nothing compared to 70’s. That being said around the Farewell tour when the original band was ending tickets softened a bit too.

  23. Like everyone else i am a kiss fan. Although in the past few years i cant stand what Gene and Paul are about these days. Those knuckleheads always claim that they dont want no negativity within the band, hence to their claim as to what Peter an Ace are. Then why would you go around and speak so negatively about Peter and Ace an give off that negative energy. If Gene and Paul are so against the past, and to them, “the past is the past”, well darn it, let the past be the past and stop crucify Peter and Ace for their mistakes! That seems to be the whole issue anyways, the mistakes Peter and Ace made in the past! Hey what about the good and greatness that they HELPED accomplished for KISS. Its really sad that KISS, my favorite band is now a brand! I dug KISS for the music, not the crap they put out in the stores! The songs within the albums got me through my school years, not no dolls, soap, puzzle, or any other junk! I think im ready to have unhonorable discharge from the KISS ARMY!

  24. rob baltimore says:

    Eddie,
    How about starting/creating a Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Hall Of Fame? It could be a virtual hall or in the grandest sense, a competitor to the current Rock HOF. The induction process would be more honest if not justified.

    • MANY have asked about this and I have tried. Not as easy as just saying it to do it right. Like to see the one we have get it right!

  25. Thomas Noel says:

    Hi everybody,
    clear Statement from a longtime Kiss fan since 1975.
    Ace and Peter shut up!! You destroyed the band to times and bring nothing on the spot. I thank Thommy, Eric, Paul and Gene for the last years of great music and shows!
    Thomas

  26. Could Ace and Peter join up with a bassist and rhythm guitarist and perform either Black Diamond, Beth, Cold Gin, Strange Ways, etc. if they wanted? If they HOF allowed?

  27. Could Ace and Peter perform Black Diamond, Beth, or Shock Me at the HOF if they wanted?

  28. I know that. I’m just thinking that Mike Anthony and Sammy did it with Paul Shaffer while the rest of the band didn’t show up. In this case it would be that Gene and Paul didn’t want to play. Ace and Peter still could?

  29. Gene is always taking shots at Ace and Peter over substance abuse. I love Gene and Paul. I like the new lineup. My wife brought me to see them I’m Dallas. Tommy and Eric are awesome. I don’t want a reunion. I love Ace and Peter. I wish KISS had a relationship with Ace and Peter the way Scorpions do with Michael Schemker. They could make an occasional appearance. Did anyone watch the Lynyrd Skynyrd induction? Gary Rossington and Artimus Pyle have said horrible things about each other, but they knew Lynyrd Skynyrd was bigger than themselves. Bob Burns and Artimus Pyle played drums together on stage with Gary Rossington and even Ed King. KISS is bigger than Gene and Paul, Ace and Peter. They should play with Bruce, Tommy, and Eric in no makeup.

    Back to substance abuse. Gene blames Ace and Peter for KISS. He blames Axl Rose for Slash and Adler though. He claims GNR fell apart due to substance abuse, but its Axl’s fought. Why doesn’t he blame himself or Paul when it comes to KISS over Ace and Peter’s so called abuse?

    http://www.list.co.uk/article/38727-gene-simmons-thinks-axl-would-benefit-from-beating/

    By the way, Ace, Peter, and Slash are happily sober.

  30. I’m happy KISS is being acknowledged in the Rock Hall. They’re being inducted in New York, where it started for them.

    As far as any of them playing – I could see Ace and Peter joining in at the end. It’s up to Paul Shaffer, who inducted Peter into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame, and did a guest appearance on Peter’s album a few years ago. And there’s not a damn thing Gene and Paul can do to stop it.

  31. Frank Esser says:

    Stanley tells the LA Times: “Imagine getting on stage and playing with a line-up that does not exist.” He compares the situation to being forced to reunite with a former spouse.

    He adds that he’d still be happy for Frehley and Criss to take part in the actual induction – but he’ll accept no argument that current members Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer should not be there too. “The naysayers talk about Tommy or Eric being impostors,” Stanley says. “I think an impostor is a guy up there doing it for a pay cheque.”

    Hmmm…Tommy and Eric are doing this for a pay cheque. Which means, that Paul indirectly admits, that Tommy and Eric are actually impostors……right?

  32. John Singer says:

    Some idiots said for Paul and Gene to kiss Ace and Peter’s ass. Those idiots forget Paul and Gene kept the KISS banner flying when Ace and Peter abandoned the band, their make up designs, and the fans. Ace and Peter… Notice how the bitch when their solo careers that they wanted so badly, are doing poorly? They need to kiss Paul and Gene’s ass, because if they did not keep the KISS brand going, no one would even know who Ace Frehley and Peter Criss were!

  33. As a KISS fan since the very beginning, I am torn on all of this. While I understand (sorta) the HOF wanting the original 4 since that was the version that put KISS on the map, I also firmly believe other members (Namely Eric Carr, Bruce, Mark, Tommy and Eric Singer….Vinnie was never a player, so to speak, in the game) should at least get an honorable mention. To me, this HOF is a sham….it’s not about who deserves to be there as much as it is about who licks enough boots, kisses enough ass, and polishes enough sacks to appease the panel that decides who gets in and who doesn’t…I mean C’mon!!! Grand Master Flash?!?!?!? Madonna?!?!?!?!?!?! Run DMC?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? And it took KISS 15 years to get in…Honestly I think Gene & Paul should show up and when announced walk up and say “Thanks but no thanks!!” They need this bullshit award to legitimize what KISS is to those of us in the R&R community who KNOW they are icons!!

  34. It’s mainly what the HoF wants and that’s all four original members performing together. Problem here is that Paul and Gene turned it down and wanted Tommy and Eric. Good thing HoF didn’t budge and I don’t blame Ace for doing what he did when he called your show to break the news about the original lineup not performing. I wonder if he was trying to spare KISS fans from being deceived. 2 spacemen and 2 catmen together? Uh-uh!! There can only be one set of KISS in makeup at a time.

  35. first concert kiss 1976 uria heep opened,with that said,there would be no band succes without,ace this guy for me was the best musician in the band the band shoud go in all original and be done with it. eddie i have been to 58 concerts since kiss show in buffalo most good bands from 70s early 80s i have every ticket stub backstage passes.lets write abook about the best bands ever.

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