ROCK HALL DEFENDS THEIR POSITION ON KISS, CEO JOEL PRESSMAN SAYS SINGER AND THAYER “TOOK ON PERSONAS CREATED BY ACE AND PETER”

KISS400 Gary Graff of Billboard reports:

With the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction ceremony looming closer, neither KISS nor the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation seem ready to relax the entrenched positions that led to the group’s decision not to perform April 10th at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn.

KISS, according to frontman Paul Stanley, is upset that the Rock Hall plans to induct only the group’s founding lineup and tells Billboard that discussions about subsequent members “was shut down as a non-starter.”

Nevertheless, Stanley says KISS feels that honoring the other six musicians who have played in the band is “a very valid argument considering that there are people who played on multi-platinum albums and played for millions of people and were very important for the continuation of the band. And clearly when you’ve got a busload of Grateful Dead (members) who have been inducted and guys in the Chili Peppers who nobody knows who they are because they played on the very earliest albums are inducted…The list goes on and on of the inconsistencies. Now, I’m not pointing fingers at any of those people, but I’m certainly pointing a finger at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The only consistencies are inconsistencies and the rules clearly are there are no rules because the criteria for how and who gets in is purely based upon a personal like or dislike. And when I feel we’re being treated unfairly, I have issues with that.”

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation CEO Joel Peresman says that the decision about who to induct from any band is made by the Rock Hall’s nominating committee as well as an adjunct group of “scholars and historians” familiar with specific inductees and genres. “This isn’t chemistry or physics; it’s not an exact science,” Peresman acknowledges. “Sometimes there’s an entire body of work up until (the artists) are inducted, other times it’s a specific period of time that established the band as who they are. With KISS there wasn’t one person here who didn’t agree that the reason Kiss was nominated and is being inducted was because of what was established in the ’70s with Ace (Frehley), with Peter (Criss), with Paul and Gene (Simmons). That’s what put them on that map.”

Peresman adds that KISS “is a unique situation where you have artists who wear makeup as part of what the band’s about,” but the Rock Hall felt that the later members — including current guitarist Tommy Thayer and drummer Eric Singer, who are wearing Frehley and Criss’ makeup, respectively — “are fine musicians who…basically have the same makeup and are the same characters that Ace and Peter started. It’s not like they created these other characters with different makeup and playing different songs. They took the persona of characters that were created by Ace and Peter.” Persman notes that last year Heart was in a similar position, where the Rock Hall chose to induct the original ’70s sextet and not later musicians that played in the band.

But Stanley feels the situation with KISS is a bit more personal. “That it’s 14 years on (of eligibility) and we’re getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a clear indication that the people who hide behind that moniker don’t like us, but it reached a point where it was so absurd and ludicrous (to exclude Kiss) that they caved,” he says. “It’s like them swallowing a teaspoon of medicine they don’t want. It’s a bitter pill for them to swallow, so they’re making it as small as possible.”

Stanley says that the Rock Hall asked KISS to perform as the original quartet, in make-up, but he and Simmons — who have been playing with three-time KISS member Singer again since 2002 and Thayer since 2004 — were not confident the performance would be up to standard. “Honestly, I don’t want to roll the dice and possibly negatively impact on what I personally have been involved in building for 40 years,” he explains. “I have too much invested at this point. It really is a can of worms that I feel is better off left closed.” Peresman, meanwhile, says the Rock Hall has no plans for a performance stand-in for Kiss at the ceremony. “We have other artists, other inductees showing up and performing when they can,” Peresman says. “We’re very hopeful that Ace and Peter and Paul and Gene come and accept their award. We’re obviously honored to have them inducted.”

Read more at Billboard.

source: billboard.com

Comments

  1. Oh ya, we can hit 250 comments with this can of gasoline. Come on everyone, start piling on!

    • Ronnie Borchert says:

      Look,
      KISS is a business and it is not even the band they used to be..
      Studio musician’s and songwriters and this guy and that guy…It basically
      ended with “Lick It Up” they should have quit then..the music has gone so
      down hill. It bothers me so much because I was so loyal to them and I am
      one of those kids who made them rich..KISS 73-83 Rocked..now it is a joke.
      They lost that love and feelin!!! Hahahaha.. Sad for real KISS fans. We sit back
      and watch them market and market everything and anything they can…but give
      us average music and members..ACE and PETER made the KISS sound.. as a KISS
      fan I will say “Gene,Paul…stop hurting me..and stop hurting real KISS fans with crap.

  2. why dont they just all play with no makeup on

  3. Tom hanson says:

    This is what I’ve been saying for years and I can’t believe Gene and Paul haven’t taken advantage of this monumental marketing ploy. Why not create two new characters for the babd and have a whole slew of new merchandise?

  4. “Stanley says that the Rock Hall asked KISS to perform as the original quartet, in make-up, but he and Simmons — who have been playing with three-time KISS member Singer again since 2002 and Thayer since 2004 — were not confident the performance would be up to standard.”

    Did anyone hear the current lineup play at the NHL Stadium Series in LA? Stanley sounded TERRIBLE. Hard to believe Criss and Frehley would make them sound any worse.

    • Ding!

    • I have said that repeatedly as well. Watched a small bit of a recent performance on one of the TV channels (palladium or one of them) and it was atrocious! I have seen them 5 times as the original 4 during the “farewell” tour, and for the first time ever in my 39 years at Psycho Circus Oct 31 (store I’d never see them without make-up as a true fan) and they were awesome every time. From giant 2003 plus stadiums to 13k small Mandalay Bay, every one awesome. This new line is horrible! I can’t imagine them thinking this would help. Pathetic. Go mess with your lame arena junk football and hang up the spandex, cuz you guys are done as far as a solid sounding act.

  5. Just let Winger play on their behalf.

  6. I see where the Hall is coming from with this stuff. The Grateful Dead was like a long running baseball team with different eras and different players that all contributed. Whether you like them or thought they sucked doesn’t matter – a lot of people loved them, and they would likely still be filling arenas if not stadiums if they were around. But they did great stuff with nearly all of their lineups.

    Heart was another band that made its mark in Rock ‘n Roll in the early days. Magic Man, Crazy On You, Barracuda are all rock classics with great riffs and tremendous vocals. They had a lot of other great songs too. Jefferson Airplane would be a similar situation – you put in the originals with Grace Slick/Balin/Kaukonen/Kanter et. al and do not put in the “Starship” lineup who, like mid-1980s era Heart did crass commercial music.

    The Hall is doing the right things with KISS. It doesn’t matter that the other members kept the band going – their best and classic material and impact was made with the original 4.

  7. If they’re so concerned about other members being inducted, how come they’re not clamoring for Eric Carr, Bruce Kulick, Vinnie Vincent, or Mark St. John to be inducted?

    One solution would be for all of them to perform without makeup. Of course, Gene and Paul would never go for that.

  8. Both sides are right about the other side being wrong – how bizarre is that?! Paul is right to be offended that it took the RRHOF this long to finally induct KISS – and clearly they did it grudgingly, when they simply couldn’t ignore the screams anymore – and so he has a chip on his shoulder about the whole thing. And as he said (and Eddie has said himself many times) the idea of a reunion will open up a can of worms that he’d rather keep closed. But the RRHOF is right to say that the original 4 characters are what made KISS who they are – THAT’S why they’re being inducted. Of course, that brings us right back to “well if it’s all about the original band, why didn’t you induct them when the original band was back together for the reunion tour?!” What a mess . . .

    • mellster says:

      Here’s what I don’t get–it wasn’t just the original four characters that kept this band going. Part of the “fan base” consists of folks who weren’t around for the original heyday of the 1970s. Was their money not the same shade of green or something?

      I’d say both the band and the Hall are in the wrong here, though it does appear (if I’m reading this right) that Paul Stanley is willing to budge somewhat, at least on the record. But the Hall can go pack sand with their “defense”, IMO. Stanley is absolutely right about that much–they’ve invited “all” members of bands in the past, even if there was no notable catalog or band history at the time of induction (see: Josh Klinghoffer, RHCP; Gary Cherone, Van Halen). Where I differ with Stanley is whether it should be done, ever–he says it’s done arbitrarily and it shouldn’t be done at all. I say it’s done arbitrarily, and it should always be done, every single time. The Hall inserting themselves in the subsequent imbroglio, claiming they have a Policy now that differs from the past is kind of dumb. The Hall should continue inviting all current and past members, and let the bands sort out the performance themselves. Let the bands take the flack for dissing former members or not.

      Bottom line, though: this particular situation is doing the whole Van Halen spectacle all over again, except in this instance, it’s an even bigger slap in the face to the fans. These KISS fans, for decades, have been raising he*l, trying to get this band honored at all. The Rock Hall of Fame is just compounding the stupid of the original information put out by Simmons and Stanley, by digging in and insisting “it has to be the original members”. No, it does not. The people representing the Hall know full well that rock stars are, at heart, a bunch of egotistical babies who happen to be really talented. There’s no need for the Hall to emulate the same behavior.

  9. Consider it a blessing Kiss not performing. It doesn’t matter which lineup, all they can play is Rock & Roll All Nite for the millionth time.

  10. I hate the HALL OF SHAME…but I at least agree that Singer and Thayer don’t deserve to be inducted for anything they’ve done in the last ten years. They’ve copied the antics of two other players and little else…and that is not worthy of any sort of induction. That would be like inducting Ian Astbury with THE DOORS (for copying Jim Morrison).

    That said, Singer is a fine drummer who played with the band during one of their better later periods (early-mid-90s). Thayer? Go to hell.

  11. Marty Prudenti says:

    My point is this, Kiss was dead in the 90’s. The only way they could play arenas was as an opening act or by going to South America. Ace and Peter reuniting with them brought them back in the spotlight. Genes home in the Hollywood hills and that fake scripted tv show would not be possibly without the reunion. Tommy and Eric are cheap labor. Ace and Peter are Kiss, not Tommy and Eric. They are touring with Def Leppard cause they have no choice. Who wants to keep seeing the same shit over and over. Bottom line, they needed Ace and Peter but they won’t admit it. Pompous, arrogant, idiots. Coming tonight. See you later Ed.

  12. OK, so what about Eric and Bruce?? They toured with KISS without the makeup. Were they “Taking on” Peter and Ace’s personas???? Not hardly!!

  13. I agree with Paul. They don’t want Kiss in the hall. They just caved because the pressure was mounting.
    Although I agree Ace and Peter created those characters but how many people have played Batman or Superman? They are still Batman or Superman.
    How about Eric Carr? He had his own character but no mention of that.
    I want to see Kiss perform but I am fine with the current members performing. I don’t think the Hall of Fame should tell them that they have to play with two EX-members that were kicked out of the band. If they could agree to play with all of them like on “Unplugged”, that would be cool but I think that is Gene and Paul’s decision to make. Not the Hall of Fame.

    • @ Don, you said, Although I agree Ace and Peter created those characters but how many people have played Batman or Superman? They are still Batman or Superman.

      Ace and Peter were and are real life superheros, Batman/Superman are totally made up fictional charactors. Even in the comic books Ace and Peter played themselves. You cannot replace a real life original superhero with someone in a Halloween outfit.

    • Ace and Peter created their characters based on who they were as individuals. Thayer and Singer are impersonating them. The Batman/Superman thing is irrelevant because none of the actors who’ve played those roles invented those characters.

      Basically what it comes down to is if you agree with Gene and Paul’s decision to turn Kiss into a “brand” and use copycat’s to impersonate the original member’s characters, then why not add Thayer and Singer to the list of those who get in? But if you’re like me, a kid who grew up in the 70’s and developed an emotional attachment to the original four…AND you’re unhappy with Kiss using copycat’s and milking the fans for every last penny they can…then you’ll probably agree that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame made the right decision.

  14. KISS Is Dead to Me after this BS ! They are a JOKE live Paul’s voice has been shot since 2006 solo tour, Paul & Gene are 60+ & are ghosts of what they used to be on stage

  15. kingofsting says:

    This hall induction really is making me loose the respect and some of the interest I had in Kiss, Paul and Gene acting like Ace and Peter never existed is really shameful and disheartening. I still have tons of respect for Singer he’s one of hard rocks best drummers. Thayer not so much, he’s a wannabe Ace always has been always will.

    I’ll stick with supporting Ace and Peter, Paul and Gene can kiss it, and I hope Paul’s book don’t sell well, I was going to buy it but now I refuse to give money to that A-hole.

  16. radiomatts says:

    This has gone beyond ridiculous. One song, two songs wouldn’t and shouldn’t have been a problem. There could have been SOME scenario where playing together would have worked. IF the six active members of KISS (pre Thayer) could get together for a few songs on MTV Unplugged, why couldn’t they get along well enough for THIS? KISS is all about the fans…as long as you continue to worship. I LOVED KISS… Paul and Ace were why I picked up a guitar in the first place. I weathered the ridicule from people like those morons from Rolling Stone who made fun of me for it. Now.. THE FANS want you guys to play ONE LAST TIME, and you won’t? Fuck you, Paul Stanley.

  17. Meh, kinda still smell bullshit. Eric Carr & Vinnie Vincet had their own personas and are still not being inducted.

  18. David Papineau says:

    I’m with Paul. There is no consistency and it’s obvious that if they were “honored” to have them inducted, they would have gone in 14 years ago. I like the fact that Paul is standing his ground and not conceding power over his band to the Hall. Like the current direction or not, it is Paul and Gene’s decision and to be forced to do something that basically opens a can of worms against their will is just not fair. The Hall hasn’t and doesn’t care about them, why should he care about the Hall.

  19. I grew up in the 70’s a huge Kiss fan. I am also proud to say, the only times I’ve ever seen KISS, it was the original 4 members (pre-split and reunion tour). Once Gene and Paul decided to run KISS as a corporation, having Peter and Ace replaced by replicants who not only dress as them but play their chops note for note, I lost complete interest. Ask anyone who are KISS fans to name the band members and they will say Ace, Gene, Paul & Peter. It’s the same as Lynyrd Skynyrd, the new group are talented but they are a Skynyrd “cover” band. Lynyrd Skynyrd ceased to be when that plane went down… The new group should have changed their name in respect.

    • Skynyrd originally reformed as “The Lynyrd Skynyrd Tribute Band” – then after a couple years they dropped the tribute bit. I don’t think Ronnie Van Zandt’s wife/estate was happy about it, even if it was his brother singing lead vocals. The Johnny Van Zandt band never had much success, so his brother’s legacy is all he has.

  20. LedNasty187 says:

    In the beginning there was the Starchild, Space Ace, Catman, and the Demon. Later, there was the Fox and Ankh Warrior. If Carr and Vincent were good enough that they could create their own KISS personas, why couldnt Thayer and Singer? Maybe because they are not really part of the band? Perhaps because they didnt really have enough to contribute to KISS to deserve their own personas?

    • Can’t blame that on them, they take their orders from above and I’m sure would have loved to be their own people

      • Mario Carpegna says:

        If Eric and Tommy had to create new personas, maybe Eric could ( the hawk, lol!), but Tommy…tommy could have a different makeup, but, can he play in his own style (like Vinnie did)? No! He always immitated Ace, he always wanted to play, move, stand like Ace…he could never be a original guitar player.

        • Klaus Baumgarten says:

          I guess he can – but this is his job, you see? Recreating Ace by G & P’s orders, we really do not know what he himself would have been capable of in a different Kiss (and will probably never know) that would not be desperately trying to mimick the reunion tour and classic vibe for money reasons. All we are allowed to see of him and his musical abilities is approved by Paul and Gene, he is probably bound by contract not to do anything else now as long as the band exists. And for Tommy this job is still much better in any respect than playing in the not-so-successful original band that he had long time ago. He can live that rock star lifestyle including private jets and all and save some money for his retirement after Kiss is finally done (which will not take that long now I am sure).

      • Bob Esssrin says:

        That’s speculation.

    • Because today, nobody would buy into it. It worked then, it won’t now. Why try to market the unknown when they could swindle the rights from the 2 original owners and plaster it on 2 fill ins… It is a scam on fans regardless. Cover band, nothing more, nothing less.

  21. Paul Stanley is worried about Ace Frehley’s performance? Come on, I watched the midnight special from 1975 when Ace was shredding in Deuce, he blew G&P off the stage. He blew them off the stage in Toronto during the reunion when I saw them over 20 years later, and he would blow them off the stage at the HOF. Gene and Paul looked like a couple of drag queens and Ace and Peter were rocking. Sickening. What is really with that stupid prance Gene does around the stage anyway and whatever Paul is doing, he is not wired right. If not for Ace Frehley I wouldn’t even listen to KISS !! I finally gave in and watched a youtube video of Tommy playing Deuce, sure he trys to play it the same and he is a good guitarist and all that, but anyone who grew up loving KISS in the 70s cannot stand to watch this, it was campy as hell. The guy is imitating Ace’s body language, solos, movements….I hope he gets paid well cause he has to look in the mirror, it’s sad……so sad. But they would rather tour with Def Leppard, BAH HA HA HA HA, one of the cheesiest bands OF ALL TIME!!! GARBAGE along with some of those songs Gene and Paul wrote. The only thing that saved some of them were Ace’s solos. We all picked up and learned to play metal guitars because of Ace Frehley, not because of Starchild or wonder boy or whatever the hell……

    • I don’t understand why nobody ever comments on Paul’s performance lately. He has struggled as a singer greatly for a few years now..

      • He has and I’ve seen KISS and Ace Frehley’s recent shows on Youtube. It’s clear that Ace’s playing is better than ever and Paul’s is struggling. I think it’s a coverup to the real reason they didn’t want to play with Ace and Peter. I wonder if Ace and Peter have watched KISS’ recent shows.

      • Exactly. He needs to shut the hell up during songs as well.

        • sorry i meant between songs, ha ha or during that works for me too, ha ha

          • and one more thing, Paul said in the beginning Ace was a comet blah blah blah, then he quit practicing. From watching Paul Stanley play guitar, what the hell does he know about practicing guitar??? What a sickening egomaniac.

            Sorry Eddie for the numerous responses but I’m angry!! ha ha

          • Klaus Baumgarten says:

            No you are right:-) Because Paul does not sing whole songs anymore, especially in the chorusses he leaves the high notes or even whole phrases to Singer to compensate for his inability. It is really sad, by his own repeatedly uttered standards (saying that Ace did not fully commit himself tothe band balabla so many times) he should kick himself out now because he can no longer deliver.

      • His voice has been shot since 2010…2009 concerts he was still singing good..I have a question Eddie…I have always said that if Eric Carr hadn’t died the original four would never have gotten back together. I say that because he and Bruce were the stability KISS was looking for and I really believe Eric Carr would still be in the band today, and probably Bruce too…Bruce only was out because of the reuniting of the originals, but I’d love your thought on that, thanks…

    • 1975?

      Look at the bonus disk from the Kissology III set. That was from MSG on one of the first legs of the reunion tour, and Ace sounds HORRIBLE. I saw three of those four shows at MSG and he was just as bad in the other one, and marginally better in the third. The last tour with Aerosmith, Peter was barely cutting (and in fact, I am convinced he had ‘behind the curtain’ help).

      I’m not naive to Paul’s vocal troubles, but I think Paul and Gene are easy targets here, and I applaud (in particular) Paul’s standing up to the Hall for their nonsense. Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr should ABSOLUTELY be in there. Vince Welnick and Tom Constantin didn’t move the needle one bit for the Dead, but they’re there, and Kiss wouldn’t have made it out of 1985 without Bruce Kulick. Actually, Dio (Sabbath) is an even more egregious slight, but someone has to bring the issue to light.

  22. While I can understand the Hall’s point-of-view on this, there are a couple of flaws in their thinking. To begin, Eric Carr created his own persona as well, and (in my opinion) was a far superior drummer than either Criss or Singer. Why should he (as well as possibly Vinnie Vincent) not be included on the list when his contribution to KISS is definitely noteworthy and substantial. Also, Eric Singer was in KISS already once before, and drummed on the album Revenge. Ask any KISS fan and they’ll tell you that that album was substantial in establishing KISS to what they were after fairly hellacious releases in the 80’s. In no way am I arguing that I would like to see the original lineup one last time, but I find it disrespectful to leave other members (Carr, Vincent, Kulick, and Singer specifically) off the list when they too have made significant contributions to KISS’ legacy both musically and aesthetically.

    • I’ve said all along, has to be ALL members or just original. Think it is very hard to pick and choose. But yes Eric was his OWN person, which Tommy and Eric should be, and none of this would be an issue..

      • Eddie, I think it would just be a different issue. If Tommy was “The Wolf” and Eric became “The Sphinx”, or something, it would in many ways be worse than what they’re doing. Instead of the “50% tribute band KISS”, it would be “unintentionally-hilarious KISS”. Instead of the KISS Army angry at Gene & Paul, they would be laughing at them. It had already gotten to that point when Vinnie joined the band. The “Ankh”? What the hell was THAT? It was just a different kind of lame.

        • You honestly think they couldn’t come up with some cool new makeup? When Vinnie was in it wouldn’t matter who was in then, Kiss was dead at that time, and it had nothing to do with his persona

      • Bob Esssrin says:

        That’s the issue? I think the Hall is the issue on their restrictions for some bands, and not for others.

  23. Bullshit. Eric Carr, Bruce Kulick, Vinnie Vincent & Mark St John never pretended to be Ace & Peter. And it’s only about the makeup??? Is this the makeup hall of fame?

  24. Sorry, Ed. Have to disagree with you agreeing with the HOF here. Where does that leave Kulick, Carr, Vincent, et al?

    F THE HALL!!!!!!

    The fact that neither Priest nor Maiden has even been discussed sickens me.

    • Said MANY times, ALL members or just originals. You can NOT pick and choose certain people. I agree with the HOF in that these guys (Tommy & Eric) are impersonating what someone else created. That is not their fault. But hard to induct someone in a HOF for impersonating what others created. I have said a THOUSAND times, Tommy & Eric are good people and players. NEVER said they shouldn’t be in the band! But they are dealing with the hand they are dealt when Paul and Gene made them dress, impersonate, act and play in the confines of what someone else created.

      • That’s the reality with KISS in that Tommy and Eric are bearing the personas that Ace and Peter created. The truth hurts, regardless of how they spin it. It’s unrealistic for Paul and Gene to think that Tommy and Eric should be inducted along with the original lineup. I think we can see why Ace said it would be absurd and a farce. I don’t blame the HoF for not budging.

  25. Well I guess Trunk is just laughing his butt off. Embarrass the band Eddie. Yeah, you’re some “fan”. You’ve done everything you can to make this stick with Paul and Gene. And to underscore the hypocrite you are, you stand in public support of an institution you have bashed for years just because they said something that agrees with you. So now the Hall speaks the truth? So now they’re a valid institution because they agreed with you on something as aimless as stage makeup? What a complete fraud. What about the Carr family and the complete rejection of their late son? What about how Thayer and Singer feel right now being the center of this argument? Do you have no consideration for their pain in the middle of all this? Are they not people too? Is this their fault now? Enjoy this mess you’ve helped make for the fans. You’re no fan of this band. You represent everything that is wrong with fans who THINK that just because they’ve got time invested, they’re somehow ENTITLED to only have the band how they want them. KISS will continue despite your criticisms and NOTHING you do will ever change that. And when the final chapter is written on this band, no one, including yourself, will ever be able to discredit their legacy. Hang your head Eddie. There are plenty of people getting pulled into this fight now that never wanted any part of it. And you egging it on only makes it worse for those people. Hate Paul and Gene all you want, but leave the other parties out of it.

    • Wow Tom, you give me a lot of credit and influence here, so thanks. I guess this is all my fault huh? Scary! I guess your “must take sides” mentality lashes out at anyone with an opinion other than yours? God forbid anyone has a voice and an opinion! I hope you enjoy Kiss for generations to come, when there are no original members at all and Gene and Paul replace themselves. One thing for sure, THEY LOVE fans like you. Just keep worshiping everything you are sold and don’t EVER question it or have any opinion. Just perfect!

    • Tom it’s morons like you that we have the Jerkoff in the WH, People like you who believe everything they are spoonfed by whoever they like or believe

    • Tom, the only people discrediting Kiss’s legacy are Paul and Gene. The “final chapter” of Kiss was already written over a decade ago on the farewell tour. What we have now is just an unnecessary epilogue to an otherwise great book. I’ve yet to hear Eddie say anything about Kiss that wasn’t spot-on. Keep fighting the good fight, Ed.

  26. Dave Esselburn says:

    This is a “cover your ass” statement by the RRHOF. They were set to induct former Nirvana drummer Chad Channing who played on the first record, Bleach and some of the demos for Nevermind. Channing was all excited and went on radio about this too. The RRHOF have since backpedaled and now say it was only an “invitation”. This has Nirvana fans furious. And it’s a direct result of this situation. They look bad putting in a guy who played on just one album, whereas everyone in KISS’ history has played on multiple albums, except for Mark St. John. Face it. They never wanted KISS and are only putting them in because people bitched and moaned. And Paul’s right, they want to continue to thumb their noses at KISS by putting in the bare minimum. Jan Wenner is laughing his ass off right now at the KISS “fans” argue which lineups are “better”.

    • Dave Esselburn says:

      And here’s a link to Chad Channing’s situation. The RRHOF…get this…TEXTED him in a ridiculously impersonal way to say, “SorryNotSorry.” I don’t even like Nirvana and this infuriates me. I’d be shocked though if Dave Grohl brings up the hypocrisy of the RRHOF about this because he’s become such a part of the music establishment. I only hope that KISS put them on blast during their speeches.
      http://www.futurerocklegends.com/blog_files/Update_Chad_Channing.html

  27. GWAR has been performing for 25 plus years with multiple members playing the same characters, I’m sure that if they were inducted all former members would be invited to the ceremony (except for Hunter Jackson and the late great Cory Smoot R.I.P.)

  28. Ace and Pete sold their persona’s and haven’t done much since. Obviously the persona’s were more important to KISS fans than Ace and Pete.

    • Klaus Baumgarten says:

      Can you think of the possibility that they sold the personas to G & P because they were offered a whole lot of money and knew they could need it because they practically ended their careers in terms of being able to make much money in the years to come when maybe on tour through small venues with their own bands? While P & G, on the other hand, gladly paid because they knew they too would need these personas to make fans buy tickets in the future. So both parties had their fair share. What would you have done?? Declined a million dollar offer?

      • That is an incredibly invalid argument Klaus. Now you’re crediting P+G for being fortune tellers? Too much emotion in these posts, little sense.

        • Klaus Baumgarten says:

          You are so illogical. Not only in this post. Trying to be seem cool when actually you are only trying to make fun of others for being (yes, also emotionally) interested in the fate of their favourite band. What does what I said have to do with fortune telling? G & P knew that they could go on making money by keeping up the image of the original lineup, keeping the songlist, keeping the overall appearence. They knew because of the huge success of the reunion. Well, and so they DID and still do even though they are on the decline. Do you think A & P sold their trademark look for a nicke and a dime? the offer must have been considerably high otherwise no one would give away such a thing. You are not making sense to me, I should say. You keep on mocking people posting here, but if that is your hobby, go on and be happy with it.

      • I wouldn’t have been so fucked up that I was even in that position….and certainly would not give up my portion of the band royalties either…

        • Klaus Baumgarten says:

          I am amazed that so many peole here know what they would have done had they been a rock star just like them – staying away from whatever temptation that might come across (often enough for free). After the three reunion tours A & P each had earned several million dollars most probably from the rumours of about being given 40k Dollars per gig, does that make you “fucked up”? And let us just assume for a second that Ace really wanted to move on after the Farewell Tour, why would he not accept even more money and sell the makeup copyright when he wasn’t planning on ever putting it on again?!

  29. BeagleDawg007 says:

    You know, I heard Gene and Paul saying they wanted to celebrate the “entirety of KISS” and that is why they refuse to play with Ace and Peter. I find this interesting as their current set list contains songs of which about 95% are pre-1982. In addition, they are playing these songs in original make-up. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, guys. Don’t feed your fans garbage about wanting to recognize all the members of KISS when what you are doing live, right now, is almost exclusively representative of original KISS and original KISS only.

    • Heart pulled the same BS. They never credit the original guys yet most of the material they do now is from that era. They went back to their old logo – even their old hairstyles for awhile. If the original guys had nothing to do with your success, where are the new rock classics? Same goes for KISS – if Ace wasn’t that important, where are the new classics?

  30. Since there will be no performances, us KISS fans can only hope that all 4 original members will put aside their differences to at least stand at the podium to accept the honors of being inducted.

  31. R&R HoF finally agreeing with Eddie- I love it! I can’t wait to see what really happens now!

  32. The original KISS band showed be the only inductees into the BS RRHOF. The other guy are just session players in make up.

    • Ace and Peter would agree with you and the HoF made the right call.

    • Pointing at Tommy Thayer is cheap and easy. Make the same argument with Eric Carr, Bruce Kulick, Vinnie Vincent and Eric Singer and it’s a lot harder. Saying Bruce is “a session musician” is a terrible disrespect to an extremely talented and worthy musician. Same with the Eric’s.

  33. Don’t worry. I am sure Tommy Thayer will get in when Black N’ Blue is inducted.

  34. I think the rock hall is right. I mean, KISS stopped being KISS after Peter left as far as I am concerned. I still like some of the music after Peter mind you. The thing is after Peter left or around Dynasty they began doing whatever was popular, they stopped being leaders and became followers. The 70’s version of KISS was so amazing and so powerful that I think everything they have done and continue to do is based completely off of that. KISS made history in the 70’s, they probably could of broke up completely in 1979 and still reunited in 1996 and been huge.

    This current version of KISS is a joke in my opinion and I would rather see a good KISS cover band at a bar instead of the “real” KISS.

  35. Kenny Baxter says:

    Had the band actually retired in 2002, they would have been inducted in ’04. This is working to the favor of both. People are talking nonstop about the Hall, and people actually give a shit about KISS touring with Def Leppard. Bottom line, the Hall is wrong in not inducting Carr, Kulick, St John, and Vincent. KISS is wrong for bitching and crying about the FANS forcing the Hall to accept them. This is has been such a clusterfuck that I don’t care anymore if any of them show up. At least all of this has made us forget about the mess that was the Van Halen induction.

  36. Mark Porter says:

    Well,it only took 40 years,but KISS has FINALLY sent me running in the opposite direction. I was onboard with these guys from the minute I heard the first few notes of the very first album. I weathered all of the stylistic changes, and the changes in personel,the deaths of Eric Carr and Mark St.John, the interminable flip-flopping about retiring and/or reuniting, and the “re-emergence” of the latest incarnation of KISS. The band has been through a lot of shit over the years, and are still around to talk about it. But,that having been said,when one or both of the founding members are relegated to commiserating about the potential of tarnishing the stellar reputation of the band by merely allowing two of the most important past members to join with them in a celebration of what was, and is, a VERY successful franchise,merely due to the speculation that those past members could not, or would not,perform responsibly (or,for that matter,coherently),or that the mere appearance of those key members would somehow trigger some form of mass “Reunion Tour II” hysteria,it begs the question” What the hell are you guys thinking?” Paul Stanley has been quoted as saying that he believed that the memory of the band would not be embellished by allowing Ace and Peter to play live with him and Gene at the induction ceremony. So, rather than give the fans,who are collectively responsible for those fat wallets and nice mansions that they currently enjoy, one last glimpse at the iconic lineup that started it all, he would just as soon choose to behave like a petulant 6 year old that will not share his favorite toy with anyone else. Jeez,Louise…..it’s only one night, and only one performance. I’m embarrassed, for all of the people who have supported this band through the years, by this blatant display of abject pettiness. Personally,I have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting,for the release of the much-delayed 4th installment of the KISSOLOGY video series, and was interested in reading Paul’s soon to be released autobiography. But, after all of this rampant back-biting, I have decided that enough is enough, and I will no longer contribute my money to anyone who engages in this twisted mind-set. Thanks for the good times,KISS. And thanks for the bad times as well…no one goes on for 40 years without some kind of hurdles to deal with. But, when you set yourself up for a fall, you’ve no one to blame but yourself. I will continue to seek out bootleg videos of the band in their various incarnations,but, as for buying official product,from which the band will personally profit…..no thanks…not anymore.

  37. Dave Gugliotta says:

    Paul Stanley is right in pointing out that the HOF is full of inconsistencies. If the HOF was so concerned with original lineups, why did they allow the debacles that were the Blondie and Creedence Clearwater Revival performances? And going forward, the HOF is inisiting that Chad Channing not be part of the Nirvana induction.

  38. joe vickery says:

    like everything kiss nowadays a good thing has turned to dramatic to really care anymore. kind of like a reality show……… weird how the rnrhof inducts kiss during their 40th anniversary…

  39. Ok? So what about Eric Carr or Bruce Kulick?

  40. This has turned into tabloid humor. It’s like following Lindsey Lohan or Miley Sirus. At this point, I’m like… who cares?

  41. This is my opinion that it had just posted on my Facebook a few days ago
    Some of you were not around when kiss ruled the world in the 70’s . There was nothing bigger than KISS . without the original 4 there would probably be no kiss today . First . Ace , Paul Peter and gene created kiss. The ICONIC characters they talk about were created by ace and Peter . Tommy and Eric are just portraying those characters. They have not added or created in anyway to kiss or THEMSELVES . Just being paid to play a role . Yes that we would all do , but they have not made a impact or changed the face of kiss, never mind the world . Ace and Peter did, that is why Paul and gene are trying to protect the brand ! I agree Eric Carr should be mentioned. Cause he was his own person and did contributed a lot to the band to keep them going for a bit longer . The late 80 and 90’s in no way matched the success they had in the 70’s . Until the reunion tour were they able to sell out areas again . On there own!
    Anyway now kiss is a brand. Not a rock band anymore . Gene and Paul both admit that . So if the CEO of coke a cola receives an award are they expected to bring all their factory payed employes up there to receive the award with them also ? Come on . If they were to ever get in the RRHOF it should only be as ..gene Paul Peter ace and the catman and spaceman like they are known for merchandise . No one cares about them ..if they had two other guys take their place no one would care and it would be business as usual . People Would still go see them still only cause of what Paul and Gene and Peter and ace created …… No one cares about tommy and Eric .. They are just playing a role . As far as other bands that all members are included in the RRHOF, Maybe they contributed to the success of the band or wrote hits as members of that band After the start of the band . I don’t know ? But I bet it was not for dressing up and pretending to be Jerry Garcea ? .
    The real story is kiss can’t stand the point that fans will always want and love ace and Peter and they can’t and won’t have the success that they have or would have without those 2 guys still! So now with the backlash for not playing with them. The PR TEAM made up this induct everyone story so to look as if that is why they won’t play .!

    • I just had another thought as I was telling my wife about the giant article I wrote…lol
      Cause these 80’s and 90’s baby’s have no clue . Here is another point
      Eric singer was hired to play on a few Alice cooper tours . Alice got inducted , no one said Eric should of been inducted too. Then think about how many bands Eric has been hired to play with say they all got inducted , should Eric been inducted with them also? Come on now . Then Eric could be in the RRHOF 5 times and a guy like Paul Stanley only once ? New bee kiss fan wake up !

  42. Michael Garry says:

    There was always only one way to do this, from the beginning; all members inducted and all available surviving members performing, together, without makeup. As a fan of 37 years, this is what I wanted to see. I wanted it to be all about the music, for one night. However, the RRHOF, after neglecting, arguably, the most famous band of all-time, for 15 years, is only willing to do it their way.

    They are ruining this, intentionally and I agree with what Paul is saying 100%. But, the ballsiest thing KISS could have done, would have been to say, “no, thanks”, as soon as it was announced they were going to be inducted and booked a show, nearby, on the same night and done whatever they wanted with it. That would have been a great story.

    I think KISS is doing the best they can, though, given the circumstances. To real, hardcore fans, KISS is a way bigger thing, than any four guys in a band. It’s a lifestyle filled with music, art and all kinds of creativity. It’s a community. The RRHOF don’t get that. They don’t want to and they don’t have to. But, they have succeeded in dividing past and present members of the band, many fans and are using the press to do it. The RRHOF represents the industry not the art and as usual, the industry is ruining the art.

  43. JCBoyd1026 says:

    I can see many ways to include TheOriginal6 or 8 even all 9/10. Its not a real thing. Its RollingStones club! Priest Maiden even DuranDuran and DepecheMode have beefs… BUT how did Hagar get in and not GaryCherrone in these ALL OR NOTHING examples… Just saying… NomeSayin?

  44. JCBoyd1026 says:

    BTW I would put in the Original6.
    Anyone ask Gene if the new guys are ‘in the band’ or ‘employees’ — his answer probably ends this public squabble…

  45. I have nothing against Eric & Tommy… But to put Peter & Aces Make up on and be who they created is very disrespectful… I will not buy or support anything with there face in that make up on. Take the make up off and tour as Kiss that way and I have no issues at all with that… Don’t Tour as a Kiss 70’s tribute band in make up.

  46. Your all idiots,if they’re gonna put kiss in the hall it should be all members not just the original four.By saying anything else your saying screw eric carr,vinnie vincent,mark st. john,bruce kulick,tommy and eric singer kiss has been an awesome band for forty years.also back in the day ace didn’t play most of his own misic in the studio anyway bob kulick did.another thing is all you people yaking about originals in bands sabbath changed singers and you still bought metallica new bass player and no dave and you still happally bought how many other bands changed lineups and no one said a word .

  47. It’s so sad that Paul and Gene have turned KISS into a running joke. They do the same nonsense on stage and it has become so phony. I’d rather go see a good KISS cover band play live. That’s what KISS is: a bad cover band.

  48. I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but the Rock n Roll Hall of fame is 100% right regarding their position on Eric and Tommy essentially being clones. However, I do agree that at a minimum Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick should also be in. The band still had significant success in the non-makeup years and those two were a big part of it. The original lineup is by far my favorite, but I will listen to and support anything through the “Farewell” tour in 2000. Paul has apparently become a world class hypersensitive prima donna and I can’t listen to a word that comes out of his mouth. It’s too bad Def Leppard has to tour with this karaoke/tribute act; I always enjoy seeing them live in the summer in Saratoga Springs, but not with what was, ironically, my favorite band of all time.

    • I’m so disappointed I missed Kiss’s “Farewell Tour” when they played at SPAC. I was living in California at the time and saw them out there, but I really would have loved to see them playing in the city I grew up in (Saratoga Springs) at the venue I worked for many years (SPAC).

  49. cont. but kiss changes and oh my god paul and gene should be killed,ace and peter QUIT for the second time and they deserve all the credit pretty sure kiss made better albums without ace and peter i love me some kiss unlike most of you though i love all the lineups

  50. I think the argument has nothing to do with the Grateful Dead and everything to do with Metallica. Robert Trujillo was inducted and played on, what, one album. Not trying to bash Trujillo, but did he have any impact on what we know as Metallica? They clearly are in for what they did up to the Black Album. It is completely inconsistent. Paul is defending his life’s work. His career didn’t end in 1980. KISS was very relevant through the 80s. Every album from Lick It Up to Revenge is either gold or platinum and they have continued to headline large arenas around the world. Would the KISS makeup era be as relevant today had the band not been soldiering on for the the last few decades? KISS should be recognized for staying relevant. How many bands have defined an era and then thrived successfully through another? Singer, Carr, and Kulick, should be in for sure.

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