KISS frontman Paul Stanley spoke with Ultimate Classic Rock about the lack of involvement of original band members Peter Criss and Ace Frehley in the band’s new A&E documentary Biography: KISStory, which will air the two-night event on June 27th and June 28th from 9 p.m. ET to 11 p.m. ET. The singer says that Frehley’s and Criss’ sound bites come from archival interviews because both wanted to be paid and have “final editing rights” in order to be part of the project. In addition, Criss would not grant permission for the documentary makers to use the song Beth — which he co-wrote — in the film.
“It’s sad, but that kind of fits into the whole dynamic,” Stanley said. “We did the best we could. We tried numerous times in all different ways to have them be part of it, but this idea of final editing and money and this and that. … It was like, ‘No, your involvement doesn’t warrant that.’ And who ultimately loses out in a situation like this? They do.”
“I don’t really want to trash those guys,” Stanley continued, “because we wouldn’t be here today if they hadn’t been in the band, and we wouldn’t be here today if they still were.”
Last September, Frehley confirmed during an appearance on SiriusXM‘s Trunk Nation With Eddie Trunk that he had been approached by the band’s documentary producers about participating in the film. “They offered me a small fee to be involved with it, and I turned them down,” he said. “I thought the fee was embarrassing, because I know how much money they’re gonna make on it. So, either share the wealth, or c’est la vie. So, I decided not be involved. But they have plenty of old footage of me, and they’ll probably use that and get by. But it won’t be the same as if they get current footage. Unfortunately, I decided the money that they offered me wasn’t anywhere near what I felt I deserved, so I turned it down. The footage you’re gonna see of me in this documentary is only gonna be old footage.”
To read more details about Biography: KISStory, and to view a trailer, please go here.
44 Responses
… it was like, ‘No, your involvement doesn’t warrant that.’ – like Ace and Peter aren’t and weren’t that important, they’re only the other 2 founding members of the band! Nice to see a photo of the real KI⚡⚡! ^^^^ Unfortunately, it doesn’t look or sound like the soap opera drama will ever end. 23 gold and platinum albums ~ more than any other American band, and deservedly so! Nobody throws a better “Rock And Roll Party” than KI⚡⚡, however, because of all the drama over the last 20 years, it has overshadowed the great music of KI⚡⚡, which has always been underrated and underappreciated, and now more so than ever. It is mostly because of KI⚡⚡ that I continue (and always will, even at 54) to “Rock And Roll All Nite” and party every day! – as much as I can! 😉 No matter what has happened over the last 20 years, and how much more bad sh-t happens in the future, it will never change or take away all the great music and memories from 1974 to 2001!
How much did Gene and Paul make for this documentary? About a million bucks each easily? How much were Ace and Peter offered? Probably $100 tops. I know for Ace it isn’t about the money, but more about the respect. Gene and Paul will always view Ace and Peter as lesser equals. For them to say Ace and Peter are always welcomed to show up at one of KI$$’ endless End of the Road shows is total BS. And kudos to Peter for refusing to allow “Beth” to be used in this documentary. A last parting FU to Gene and Paul.
It is because they are NOT equals…both Peter & Ace sold their rights to the Gene/Paul. Stupid is as stupid does…why, because they valued being F’ed up more so than being responsible. Gene/Paul catch shit all of the time because THEY DID THE RIGHT THING, even both Peter & Ace an SECOND CHANCE which they whiffed on again. KISS is still here because of Gene/Paul…..and coming from someone who saw the ‘Destroyer’ Tour & my favorite, the Can Am Tour…the EOTR is a better show than any before it. Eric/Tommy can play circles around Ace/Peter. Peter/Ace have ALWAYS screwed themselves over & then cried, “Poor Me” afterward…tired of hearing it, from them & from fans who can’t see the forest because of the trees.
Wag, KI$$ stopped being KI$$ when Gene and Paul began dressing up imposters, regardless if they had the legal right to do so after the terrible business decisions of Peter and Ace to sell their character rights. KI$$ was a band founded where each band member developed their own persona. That foundation died when Eric and Tommy began portraying the characters developed by others.
Peter and Ace had substance issues. Peter deliberately sabotaged performances. Neither could be relied up on a regular basis. Both were poor bandmates. Ace quit the band. Peter wore a tear on his makeup to show his displeasure. Peter and Ace are inferior musicians compared to Eric and Tommy. And on and on and on…..IMO, all true….But Peter and Ace are forever a part of the original lineup that, for a period of time, where the “hottest band in the land”. Peter and Ace contributed to that success, regardless of their screw ups and regardless of Gene trying to be a celebrity with all his Hollywood distractions. Peter and Ace’s legacy should be remembered, not s*** upon, the way their contributions are minimalized by Paul and Gene.
Kudos to Paul and Gene for continuing to rock and roll cuz I can’t image a rock and roll world without them it. And kudos to Eric and Tommy for helping in that endeavor. But shame on Paul and Gene for continuing the brand KI$$ while others imitate the personas of Peter and Ace, regardless if they have every legal right to do so. You want to market those characters for business branding, that’s fine. But dressing up others for the stage or appearances is just morally wrong, IMO. Dress up others, that’s a tribute act…perfect for Gene’s new hometown of Vegas but absolutely wrong for me.
As a person who is emotionally detached from both the band, and the situation, I always wondered why Stanley and Simmons did not just create new characters for Thayer and Singer, like they did for Carr and Vincent? Had Criss and Frehely already sold the rights to their makeup by the time Carr and Vincent were members? If so, it is interesting that they did not use Ace’s and Peter’s makeup on Eric and Vinnie? I think the rule of thumb is, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
I think it is perfectly fair for Simmons and Paul to continue to use their likeness on marchandise, but I think it would have just been in better taste to create new characters for Tommy and Eric.
Perhaps, strictly from a business standpoint, they may have felt they would not make as much money without using the Spaceman and Catman personas? So, perhaps that is what this is really all about, dollars and cents versus ethics and common sense? Maybe, they should have just reverted back to no makeup? 🙂 But, I guess the idea is for the band to eventually carry on without any original members, and that would be impossible without makeup.
Ace created his Spaceman persona/character, Peter created his Catman persona/character, Eric Carr created his Fox persona/character, Stanley created Vinnie’s Warrior persona/character, what have Singer and Thayer created? NOTHING! I don’t think Ace and Peter “sold” their rights to their characters until 2001-2002? Whatever their reasons were, it was wrong, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right! What Gene and Paul have done since by parading Eric and Tommy around as the Catman and Spaceman, is WAY WORSE than what Ace and Peter did!
Well, if Ace and Peter sold the rights to the makeup in ’01 or ’02, that explains why Eric and Vinnie HAD to create different personas. Otherwise, they may been in the makeup way before Singer and Thayer, as Paul and Gene are technically the bosses. What they say goes, unless someone believes so firmly in their ethics that they would rather not take the job?
If these guys can’t even agree on terms to appear in a documentary, there is no way there will ever be an agreement for Ace and Peter to perform on stage with Gene and Paul. I guess today’s tribute version of KI$$ will run its course….
I don’t blame Ace and Peter for not wanting to appear in the documentary. Based on Gene and Paul’s past comments, they probably would present Ace and Peter in a negative manner, just like Metallica misrepresented Dave Mustaine in their “Some Kind of Monster” movie.
And good on Peter for refusing to allow the song “Beth” to be used in the documentary. It just sickens me knowing that the Copy Cat does a “karaoke” of that song during concerts. Just disgusting……
It makes sense they wouldnt be involved , they wanted real money , and paul and gene mostly paul feels he they stayed and nurtured the band and kept it alive during the tough times , It is always about the money in any business money = respect , paul and gene feel like they dont deserve much money what does that tell you .. I disagree with paul on this point , kiss would certainly still be here and probably more successful if ace and pete were still in the band , at least he didnt trot out the addict nonsense , he seemed to tell it like it is – I dont really care anymore about seeing this
watered down version ,with the lip sync garbage just a shame what they have become ~
Just to offer some perspective: I have students who only like KISS songs and they don’t care about who Ace and Peter are verses Tommy and Eric. They don’t know the difference and they don’t care. I can’t imagine any of the original members of the band are going to offer any new insights that we old guys haven’t heard before. I think Paul has misunderstood that money equals respect, which is one of the reasons why Tom Brady left New England. They should have offered Ace and Peter the respectful money they deserve, but NO to editorial permission. I still think the documentary will be awesome though.
That is great perspective , many people who like sonic boom and monster songs dont care who played guitar or drums , not every music fan loves the history of great bands – many do many dont – paul and gene have been banking on that fact since they asked eric and Tommy to essentially portray ace and pete , personally
i believe paul probably still likes ace and even peter, but does he respect or admire them? My feeling is no , and I’m sure he has convinced himself and be brlieves they don’t deserve to be paid equally –
I believe he is dead wrong from a business stand point and a morally- if kiss announced today the last 10 shows of this final tour would be the original kiss , what would happen ? …. those shows would sell out within hours, kiss would double or triple their total business take , and if I had to guess… paul and gene know this and hate it !
Heres where it’s wrong morally… the reason there not in the doc or any tour dates is simply punitive , you did this to the band in the past so now you have no right to be in kiss anymore this is your your punishment /consequences – I think it’s that simple , and it is awful they would rather repeatedly throw ace and pete under the bus before admitting ace and pete would not only be welcomed back by the fans but would increase sales 300 % wrap tour head around that ~