ORIGINAL KISS GUITARIST ACE FREHLEY DISCUSSES THE ROCK HALL INDUCTION, BEING CALLED AN ANTI-SEMITE AND HIS THOUGHTS ON THE BAND’S MERCHANDISING
J. Bennett of Noisey spoke with original guitarist KISS guitarist Ace Frehely about the band’s Rock Hall induction and all the controversy surrounding it. The interview appears in entirety below.
Noisey: This whole Hall of Fame thing has turned into a real fucking soap opera, hasn’t it?
Ace Frehley: [Laughs] That’s a good word for it. I haven’t been paying too much attention to what people are saying on the internet, no matter who it is. I’m trying to finish my new record, so I can’t let that rent a lot of space in my head.
Noisey: It seems like every day Paul Stanley has a new disparaging comment to make about you and Peter Criss.
Ace Frehley: Well, I’m appalled at Paul. [Laughs] I’m appalled at the whole thing.
Noisey: One thing he’s been saying that makes a lot of sense is that the Hall of Fame has basically been shamed into inducting KISS. They don’t really want to do it, but the demand from fans has been overwhelming for the past 15 years. Do you agree with that assessment?
Ace Frehley: There’s been a lot of pressure on them to induct us over the years, and they resisted. We could’ve been inducted 15 years ago. You’re eligible after 25 years as a band, but they waited 40. Sooner or later, it doesn’t matter to me. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a big honor and I plan to have a good time. Paul’s been getting involved with the politics of who’s being inducted—who should be, who shouldn’t be, as far as the people who joined the band after me and Peter left—but I try to stay away from all that stuff because it’s politics. I’ve always tried to keep music and politics separate.
Noisey: Do you think the guys who came after you and Peter—Eric Carr, Vinnie Vincent, Eric Singer, Tommy Thayer, Bruce Kulick—deserve to be inducted as well?
Ace Frehley: I don’t know what the rules are. Supposedly there are certain guidelines that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has, and obviously they didn’t meet those criteria. I know for a fact—the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame told me—that the reason they refused to induct Tommy and Eric [Singer] is because they’re not contributing anything original to the band. They’re just copying stuff that Peter and me did during the first ten years of the group. So they’re just actors, basically.
Noisey: Do you have any sort of relationship with Tommy and Eric?
Ace Frehley: I’m friends with those guys. I really like Eric—on the last Kiss tour I did, I’d hang out with Eric and have a few laughs when we were in Australia. At the time Tommy was our road manager, which is kinda bizarre. I mean, you can’t make this stuff up. What rock supergroup has a dynamic lead guitarist who leaves the band, and they replace him with the tour manager? You can’t make this shit up. If somebody wrote that as a script for a rock ‘n’ roll film, nobody would believe it. But Tommy’s not a bad guitar player. He’s got his chops. Not very original, but it is what it is.
Noisey: There’s been a huge pissing match over which members of Kiss should play at the ceremony. The Hall of Fame wanted you and Peter to play, but Paul and Gene said they’d only play with Tommy and Eric, because they’re the current members. Some folks are saying that all of you should play. As it stands now, there will be no Kiss performance. What do you think about the whole debacle?
Ace Frehley: I don’t have a problem with Tommy and Eric playing. The problem I have is that Paul and Gene shot down the idea of playing with Peter and me and wanted to perform with just Tommy and Eric—in makeup, too. That’s makeup I designed. I’m supposed to sit there while I’m being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and I gotta watch some other guy playing in my costume and makeup? That didn’t sit very well with me because the Hall of Fame requested that just the four original guys perform.
Noisey: You recently said that the reason Paul and Gene don’t wanna do that is because the fans will want a full-blown reunion tour afterwards.
Ace Frehley: Well, that’s what a lot of people say. They’re afraid of history repeating itself. When we did Unplugged in 1995, Peter and me came out and did two songs and the place went crazy. Paul and Gene had to buckle to public opinion, and the fans wanted a reunion. They had just done an album with Bruce and Eric that they had to put on the back burner. But it was the most successful tour that year. We grossed over 250 million dollars. It was insane. So they don’t wanna open a can of worms. Outside looking in, as an unbiased person, I don’t blame them. But it’s been 40 years. I was in the band, I left the band; I rejoined in ’96 for five years, left in 2001 and the fans have always been there for me. They really want the reunion. Ever since the announcement that we were being inducted, that’s all I hear from fans. All they want is for me and Peter to perform two or three songs and that’d be the end of it. But Paul and Gene shot it down. They can’t give the fans ten minutes for supporting us for 40 goddamn years?
Noisey: Do you think it would be unfair to Tommy and Eric if you and Peter performed at the ceremony?
Ace Frehley: What do you mean unfair? They’re not even being inducted!
Noisey: What I mean is that Tommy and Eric are current members of KISS. It’d be kinda shitty of Paul and Gene to ask them to sit out a performance so they could play with you and Peter.
Ace Frehley: A lot of people are being honored at the ceremony. Some people are getting up to do a few songs, and some people aren’t. We’re only talking about a couple of songs. It’s not a concert. If I was in charge of the whole thing, we could just get up there in Italian-cut suits or something—we wouldn’t even have to wear the makeup.
Noisey: Paul’s book recently came out. Have you read any of it?
Ace Frehley: I haven’t read it, but I’m sure he threw me under the bus in one way or another. [Laughs] Although I heard he threw Gene under the bus more than anyone.
Noisey: Apparently he thinks you and Peter are anti-Semitic.
Ace Frehley: That’s absurd. I’m engaged to a Jewish lady! I’ve been with her for five years. Her name is Rachael Gordon and she’s a singer-songwriter. I met her in San Diego on my 2008 tour. And my whole life I’ve been in the music business. You know the music business is controlled by Jewish people: My attorney, my accountant—everybody’s Jewish. [Laughs] I’m anti-Semitic? Are you out of your mind? You know what the problem is? Paul’s cranky because he can’t call me a drunk or a drug addict anymore. He can’t say I’m unemployable. He can’t say I don’t show up, because I do these days. So now he’s grasping at straws just to grab headlines for his goddamn book.
Noisey: After 40 years, KISS made the cover of Rolling Stone for the first time this month. Did you see the article?
Ace Frehley: Yeah.
Noisey: At one point, both Paul and Gene acknowledge that they think about you and Peter every day.
Ace Frehley: I don’t believe that for a second. [Laughs]They try to avoid us. We’re like a bad rash that won’t go away. [Laughs] But it has to be irritating when all they hear from the fans is, “Yeah, Tommy’s OK, but there’s nothing like the real thing.” That’s gotta be frustrating for them. Their fallback position years ago was, “Yeah, Ace was great, he contributed a lot to the group, but he’s a drunk and a drug addict so we can’t use him.” But I’ve been sober for seven and a half years, so what’s their fucking excuse now? And now Paul’s calling me a Nazi? It’s ridiculous.
Noisey: Is that why you didn’t participate in the new KISS documentary that’s coming out?
Ace Frehley: I wasn’t actually contacted by KISS about that. Their bodyguard contacted my bodyguard and offered me a small amount of money to do it. They tried to come in through the back door because, you know, they don’t wanna pay me any money. But if they don’t pay me now, they’re gonna pay me a lot more later. That’s just the way it works. My attorney is on top of it. If they would’ve been up front, that’s different. But they go through my bodyguard and say it’s some guy from England who’s producing it when really it’s Paul and Gene that are producing it. They’re the money behind it, and they’re trying to get me cheap. But I’m in the middle of a record. I don’t have time for nonsense. Supposedly they’re using some old interviews I did. I probably come off like a knucklehead, but who knows?
Noisey: Later this month, you’re gonna present an award named in honor of fallen Pantera guitarist Dimebag Darrell, who was actually buried in a “KISS Kasket.” Don’t you think that’s a little weird?
Ace Frehley: Yeah, it is a little weird. But KISS fans are weird—everybody knows it. These days I have to be transparent, you know? [Laughs] There’s nothing I’m gonna say that’s gonna shock anybody. So, yeah, a lot of KISS fans are kinda strange. But that’s okay because we’re strange.
Noisey: I can’t believe the KISS Kasket is a thing that exists.
Ace Frehley: If it was my decision, I wouldn’t have gone there. There’s a lot of things that Gene has done with the merchandising that are just over the top. He’s got everything from prophylactics to toilet paper—anything to make a buck. It’s embarrassing.
That’s one of the reasons I left the group. Towards the end, I’d go out and see kids in the front row with KISS dolls and lunchboxes and my manager is going, “Hey, Ace—watch the cursing tonight. We’ve got kids in the front row.” I mean, we started out as this heavy, mean, nasty rock ‘n’ roll group wearing leather and it turned into a goddamn circus.
source: noisey.vice.com
Looking forward to Thursday and this focus on the Kiss Konundrum ending cannot come soon enough
My respect of Ace only grows as time moves on – especially with this interview. To those who continue to have a beef and quarrel with him, forget it about it. He ain’t perfect and neither are you. Ace has (yes) integrity – something Gene and Paul know very little about. Ace is not a sell out who will do and say anything to undermine someone if it means making a buck. He rises about the garbage and refuses to get mired in the muck. Just lives his life. No matter what he is called by Gene and Paul, he wisely dismisses them and their condescending remarks as he should. However, if things are said about him that are untrue, he wastes no time calling those people and remarks out. That is what real confidence is. You want an actual role model on how to act when people are throwing shit at you, just look at Ace. Laugh all you want. Read the interview again. Classy is what Ace is and I wish him nothing but the best for as long as he lives.
Ace is getting respected more and more by the day with the HoF situation growing. Makes you wonder why Ace is the most likeable of KISS, isn’t it?
Ace isn’t a sellout? Nobody put a gun to his head to sign up for the Reunion tour, nobody twisted his arm to sell the rights to his makeup. Look Ace is no different than Gene and Paul. He did what he had to do for money when he needed it. I don’t blame him for it. I just don’t put him on a pedestal like some of you seem to do. He’s done more than his fair share of mud slinging as well…his hands aren’t clean. And I’ll give Ace credit for that…he slung mud and now it’s somebody else’s turn…he seems to understand that part of it.
How is doing a reunion tour a sellout? Making a living isn’t selling out. Of course there’s a difference between Ace, Paul and Gene. Show me some mud that Ace has slung without being initially taunted or insulted – just on his own for no good reason and out of nowhere like Paul and Gene habitually do. Defending insults aren’t mud slinging but instead just standing up for yourself and demanding some respect and dignity.
That’s just it Rich…it’s not. Just like it isn’t for Gene and Paul to continue doing what they are doing. Totally agree…making a living is not selling out. My point is…if someone is bitching at Gene and Paul and calling them a sellout, then you gotta do the same for Ace. As I said nobody twisted his arm to do it…but as I followed up, they all did what they had to do to (legally) make a living. I won’t ever begrudge anyone that…as nobody should begrudge Gene and Paul for continuing the band and crying that they sold out. I always loved what Jason Newstead would say when fans claimed Metallica had sold out…”every freakin’ night”.
All four are guilty. It’s stupid to pick sides because people don’t use fact or rationale, just emotions and piss the other side off. Ace was a drunk and a drug addict. And he’s owned it over the years. Something many don’t do. But he’s the first to admit he’s made mistakes and has moved on and deserves respect for that. He comes off very good in this interview as he has in others. He’s smart enough to know that taking the high road will pay off.
Great post DR…..spot on. I think this whole situation has gotten US FANS turning against each other. I’m guilty. But…BUT… I love this band….as much as I said “kiss my ass” to Gene & Paul, at the end of the day I don’t wish any bad on them nor do I for Peter & Ace. And I really feel in my heart that all four of them love each other…I hope……. Joe in The Cuse
You are 100% spot on. Paul and Gene are the shit starters, always have been.
Of course there’s a difference: one is Ace, so what he does isn’t selling out, and the other is Gene and Paul, so what they do IS selling out. Fact is, it’s been pretty well documented that Gene and Paul took the risk with the reunion, not Ace and Peter. By all accounts, they were employees, but they were paid. If the tour tanked Ace and Peter wouldn’t have lost a dime, but Gene and Paul would have. You can argue that there wasn’t much risk – it’s Kiss! – but when you need two other guys to pull their weight and those two have a checkered past… While they are sober now, it’s also pretty well documented that Ace was NOT on the early legs of the reunion.
It isn’t Paul that’s the hypocrite in this whole brouhaha, it is the fans. Ace is the classy one? The guy who is parading his fiance around as “proof” he’s not antisemitic on one hand then saying “the entire music industry is Jews” on the other?
I think the two weeks of disrespect that Paul is showing PALES in comparison with the 37 years of disrespect that Peter and Ace have showed to him and the band he and Gene put together.
Well said…at least a few can think logically.
The reunion was “low risk” for Gene and Paul. If the tour was a success it keeps the money rolling in and propels KISS back to the top of the heap and if it fails they would just do what they are doing now… blame Ace and Pete. No real risk so your point is moot.
Very wrong! Paul and Gene gambled the future of the band and their careers on the Reunion tour. Had it failed, Kiss (the band)…not Gene and Paul would have been bankrupt. There is a difference in “band” and personal finances…which many people don’t understand. Sure in hindsight people can say it wasn’t a risk but at the time…with how the promoters viewed Kiss, who were not willing to give them the guarantee’s they were asking, it was a big risk. The Revenge tour was a failure…as great as it was it didn’t do big business. Further Gene and Paul weren’t exactly rolling in the dough at the time either. The music scene was in massive turmoil in the mid 90’s and essentially Kiss was on their last leg as relevant act. They only had one option…put the makeup back on or call it quits because they couldn’t afford to let the bands finances bankrupt them personally…so yeah, it was sink or swim. And the kicker, Paul and Gene weren’t guaranteed jack. The money they made was on the back in, and yeah, it was a lot in the end. More than anybody ever thought. Ace and Peter would make 2 mill regardless if the tour failed. You believe what you want but that’s how it went down, I saw it first hand as I worked for one of the biggest promoters in the business at the time.
Parading his fiance around? Come on man.
He’s just saying his fiance is jewish to a response. Kinda highly doubt he went out and found a jew to parade around so he’d look good to some Kiss fans. Foresaw that Paul was gonna label him an anti-semite.
Judas, how does Paul taste? lol
Sounds like Ace is a bigot in your eyes.
Oh really?? JUSSSST 2 weeks of Paul disrespecting?? What a meatball. I guess you have a very short memory of not only Paul but Gene’s wrath of blood swinging. And it is very evident that you really never watched any Bill Aucoin interviews. Now off you go to get Paul’s coffee….go
Say what you want about Ace, but Gene & Paul are no angels either. Their treatment of Eric Carr was very bad in the end.
I firmly believe Gene and Paul, and the overt stress they caused Eric Carr to have, is why he developed cancer. Major stress, it has been proven, can actually cause disease in the body. The man was under constant stress. Here’s a very true and good story for everyone. If you are a fan of Eric, you will want to read all of this, trust me:
New Haven coliseum, CT, October 1990. Hot in the Shade tour. By this point, it was well known that Eric’s drum solo had been cut out of the show. He rebelled by showing up in half a beard (a no-no in Kiss at the time), and floppy pajama-type pants. Gene and Paul were livid about this. At this show in New Haven, a friend of mine won backstage passes for him and a bunch of his friends (including me), to have a pre show meet and greet with the band, courtesy of WPLR radio. Eric came around, and was, as always, a complete gentleman and very nice to everyone. Also, his solo had recently gotten reinstated into the show. My cousin, a huge Carr fan and drummer himself, was next to me, and thrilled as Eric approached him. My cousin is very loud and very brutally honest. “Hey Eric!”, he said, “I heard ya got your solo back in. Good for you, man! Don’t take any shit from those 2 knuckleheads! (Gene and Paul)”. Eric smiled nervously, looked to his left, then to his right, then at my cousin and said, “I won’t.” This is so, so sad to me. He was looking to see if Gene and Paul were within earshot, which they were not. This shows you exactly how those 2 treated Eric. They shit all over the nicest rock and roller anyone could ever meet. Eric wouldn’t hurt a fly. He didn’t know how to. That memory has been burned into my mind ever since. To top it off, the poor guy gets sick, and Kiss just HAS to go right into the studio?? They couldn’t wait? Sure, Ezrin has a schedule, Mercury does, too. I get it. But where do ETHICS come into play here? Our drummer and friend is very ill, you are going to have to wait. Sorry. THAT would have been the way to behave. So, business as usual, right? Eric was crushed that he couldn’t play on the record, but can you IMAGINE lying in that hospital bed, thinking my bandmates are stepping over me to make a record that’ll probably sell a few hundred thousand copies? It’s not like the world was waiting for a new Kiss record, and even if they were, WHERE ARE YOUR FEELINGS??
Eric Carr was a smoker. Gene and Paul can now ’cause cancer with their behavior? That is ridiculous. Eric Carr could’ve gone elsewhere if it was hell on earth. He was talented and had name recognition.
Hmm…so I guess, bringing Eric on board when they could have chosen anybody in the world, buying him a car, heading out on a massive tour of Europe and Australia, providing him with a living and in the process taking him from obscurity to instant fame and the crappiest of clubs to 50,000 people almost overnight, followed by more albums, and more tours over the next 10 years and even paying his hospital bills till the end is shitting all over a guy? Joe…just walk away from it man, you’ve lost all perspective.
Eric couldn’t get a song on a record for years. the only reason anyone else did was because Paul or Gene co-wrote them.
Oh, ok. So that makes it ok that they treated him like shit in the end, and then CRASHED his funeral when the family made it clear they didn’t want them there? YOU are the one who has lost all perspective JB.
JB.
You gotta tread a little easy here, you don’t know if KISS paid the hospital bills. Eric Carr was fired on his deathbed that is a fact. Some people claim that they fired Eric Carr to avoid paying the hospital bills, other people claim that the relationship between Eric and Paul and Gene were so strained, that they let him go. Paul and Gene has publicly said, that they regret the whole Eric Carr situation and the way they handled it towards the end of his life.
Regarding giving Eric Carr a car? Well that was how things were done in those days, I’m pretty sure Eddie Trunk (as a former Record co guy) will agree with me on that?
Playing for KISS was a job for Eric, so all the stadiums, fame etc was already a part of the package….. KISS is not a band, it’s a business.
Well…that’s up for debate again Jimi as Paul clearly states in his book they were paying his bills. So now we’ve got another angle. I was under the impression that they had dropped his coverage based on what everybody had said until now. Who’s telling the truth?
Even the supposed “fact” that he was fired on his deathbed…again, according to Paul the family would not let them talk with Eric in his final days. Kinda hard to fire someone on their deathbed when you can’t speak with them. Obviously the truth is in there somewhere…what that may be is again, up for debate. I do find it telling that Eric’s family came to the groups defense on the recent lawsuit issue.
Another thing…those comparing Eric and and Rick Allen’s circumstances probably need to get a clue. Eric died. So we’ll never know if he had gotten healthy that he would have returned to Kiss or not. Further…Def Leppard did hire a drummer to work on their record and would have moved forward had Allen not be able to go.
However one thing that cannot be debated is Kiss plucked him out of obscurity and allowed him a nice life for a decade. If people want to hate on Gene, Paul..and Ace, for giving an unknown his shot at fame, money, albums, tours i.e. a music career he had always wanted, then have at it.
Agree. Gotta respect Def Leppard for sticking by its drummer after he lost his arm, waiting years for his recovery and engineering a new drum kit. Kiss abandoned Peter Criss after his car accident and erased Eric Carr’s memory altogether.
Refresh my memory. What caused Peter’s car accident again?
I think they held him down and forced drugs and booze down his throat. I betcha Fritz thanks Peter as well.
I had no idea Gene and Paul had so much power. They must really be Demons and Starchildren. That must mean Peter is really a cat! They must’ve figured he had 8 lives left. Next time I talk with Ace, I’ll ask him what Mars is like, cause he must really be from outer space!
If this is so, then Eric Carr may have been right to cut communication from Paul and Gene in 1991before his passing.
Joe here is a true story….& not a Paul/Gene BULLLLLLSHIT story. It is December 1987 and my friend Mike & his girlfriend at the time just happened to meet Eric Carr 2 days before Christmas at a local store. Mike was so excited but asked about Kiss’ next tour. He said Eric let out a huge sigh and said “I need time away from the band. I really can see why Ace decided to leave. The BS is way to much”. And I never believed that story until 2002 when one of Eric’s best friends did a interview in the local paper & told the reporter that Eric couldn’t handle Gene & Pauls ruthless commands. Eric had trouble with stress, no sleep etc: And people questioned why Ace & Peter had substance abuse problems??
You’re actually blaming Paul and Gene for Eric’s cancer? I’m speechless as to how ridiculous that is. This is an example of why I don’t respect any of the Ace/Peter people in here.
Pardon the pun but quit hiding behind the “truth”…if youre gonna comment, use your real name..thanks..
Why would I use my real name on a message board? Why would anyone?
Paul rags on him all the time.