I love UFO too. But I’ll never understand how they went on tour in 1982 as an opening band and didn’t play “Doctor Doctor” OR “Rock Bottom!” Big mistake in my opinion. Yes – I realize that as an opening band the sets are shorter. And I know they tour to promote the new LP, but c’mon boys! If that wasn’t a Spinal Tap type of move, I don’t know what is. I had to get that off my chest. But I saw UFO open for OZZY in 1982 and they were great.
Regarding the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I was a big KISS fan from around 1976 to 1978. I was also about 12 years old back then, like Eddie. I can argue either way on KISS getting in or not. Yes – if you put in Rap bands and some lame punk bands and Madonna, you have to put KISS in. But in hindsight with KISS I see a very contrived band. They weren’t particularly original – basically taking Alice Cooper’s act and multiplying it by four. A lot of Humble Pie influence and Sabbath/Zeppelin too – which is cool. None of them were outstanding “Hall of Fame caliber” musicians, though they were certainly competent. They relied on pyrotechnics, likely to hide their lack of musicianship. Their main audience by 1977/78 were kids. A lot of their records don’t hold up very well today. Even as a concert draw, they probably weren’t the biggest in 1976/1977. I’d bet Peter Frampton and/or Zeppelin eclipsed them in attendance.
To put them in a league with Led Zeppelin is laughable. Led Zeppelin remained a top draw throughout their career. Their musicianship was superb. Their improvisations were superb. Each LP was different from the previous one and they were all great. Not a stinker in the bunch. Each show was different. They showed growth. They remain the most influential band in rock since the Beatles. I could go on….
But I give KISS credit for hanging in there. They’re on their 4th decade as a band and still draw. Ace Frehley came up with some great guitar riffs, and the others did some good stuff as well. They were the definition of a BAND with each member being a part of a whole, and the whole greater than the sum of their parts. They had some great hits and rock staples. They also introduced a lot of kids into rock and roll.
John G –
I think what you are missing with regards to KISS being HOF worthy is how many musicians were influenced by KISS. The HOF (the sham that it is) is not a Hall of Excellent Musicians. It is the Hall of Fame and there wasn’t many bigger bands in KISS’ heyday than KISS.
I totally disagree with your idea that their stuff really doesn’t stand up today. I would argue that “Strutter” and “Detroit Rock City” are two examples of early cuts that definitely stand up well today.
Hard rock and simplistic.
They definitely deserve to be there before many current members and their time to get in is long past due.
Just because their audience was made up of mostly kids on their tours doesn’t automatically keep them from that honor of getting into the HOF. Beastie Boys concerts were nothing but teen romps with inflatable dicks and that got them in.
I think the last decade or so people are down on KISS because of the overbranding of merchandise and line up changes but it doesn’t by any means erase a pretty extensive body of work – and their latest album is pretty damn good too.
While I would agree that they aren’t in Zepp’s league, it’s a moot point. They are definitely in the HOF league and while they may not belong in the same wing with Zepp, they are definitely worthy of being in the same building. Some of the current members don’t even belong in the same zip code.
I’d argue the opposite, I think KISS, for all its popularity is one of the LEAST influential bands out there. Eddie and a bunch of KISS fans throw around the line about how influential KISS was and no one questions it. I don’t buy it. Yes, a lot of guys first got inspired to pick up an instrument when they got into KISS, but that’s no different than people watching the Monkees TV show and picking up an instrument.
Listen to 1980s hard rock and heavy metal. I’d argue that the most influential bands were Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Queen and Deep Purple. Then for the 1980s clearly Van Halen and Aerosmith. Not a lot of 80s bands sound much like KISS, but a lot of them sound like VH and Aerosmith. More 1980s guitarists sound like EVH or Michael Schenker (if they were European Bands,) not Ace or Paul. People talk about “Beth” being one of the first hard rock band ballads, but “Dream On” came before it. How about the make up? I don’t see a lot of bands wearing the KISS make up influence. And who cares anyways? That ain’t music. Motley Crue came out looking like KISS, but they sounded like Van Halen – and the sound is what people care about and what sells tickets. RATT sounded like Aerosmith. Who’s the big KISS sounding band? Where’s the band with 4 lead vocalists? And BTW – Humble Pie and the Beatles did that way before KISS.
Kiss not in the Rnr hall of fame- albums a don’t hold up well? Destroyer to this day holds up great and the first KISS album is practically entirely still in the live show!
Typical critics yet they were good enough for Garth brooks –
Lenny kravitz- Pantera. Geeze – KISS is a mainstay in American hard rock legend like it or not!
BTW – The biggest late 1980s/90s band, Guns and Roses – sounds more like Rocks Era Aerosmith. No real KISS sound there. Even the heavy bands like Metallica, don’t sound like KISS. List the big KISS influenced bands – not ones that say KISS influenced them, but the ones that sound like KISS. There aren’t many.
40 Million.
KISS has sold over 40 million albums. Their reach is there, their body of work is there. You might not agree with it and want to compare them to everyone who has ever plugged in a guitar but no matter how you slant it, you cannot tell the story of Rock and Roll and NOT mention KISS. You can do all the take aways you want “They didn’t influence this sound or that band or this singer/guitarist” but KISS is more influential than makeup and pyros.
It doesn’t matter who did it first, who did it better, who were harder or who was louder because if it did -you could go back and eliminate 98% of everyone in the hall currently.
KISS’s body of work isn’t there. It’s very spotty. They’ve put out a lot of very mediocre stuff. Songs like “Lick It Up” – c’mon, that’s a joke. “I Love It Loud” – really? A lot of their songs are a joke. I think some of the early LPs are decent and they certainly have some good songs – a couple bona fide rock classics for sure. But most 1970s era bands that were any good also have a few great songs. Might as well put in Foghat, Pat Travers, Blue Oyster Cult, The Outlaws and everyone else with that argument.
23 Responses
We “never knew” that Eddie had a beef with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Really? And that’s number one??
I love UFO too. But I’ll never understand how they went on tour in 1982 as an opening band and didn’t play “Doctor Doctor” OR “Rock Bottom!” Big mistake in my opinion. Yes – I realize that as an opening band the sets are shorter. And I know they tour to promote the new LP, but c’mon boys! If that wasn’t a Spinal Tap type of move, I don’t know what is. I had to get that off my chest. But I saw UFO open for OZZY in 1982 and they were great.
Regarding the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I was a big KISS fan from around 1976 to 1978. I was also about 12 years old back then, like Eddie. I can argue either way on KISS getting in or not. Yes – if you put in Rap bands and some lame punk bands and Madonna, you have to put KISS in. But in hindsight with KISS I see a very contrived band. They weren’t particularly original – basically taking Alice Cooper’s act and multiplying it by four. A lot of Humble Pie influence and Sabbath/Zeppelin too – which is cool. None of them were outstanding “Hall of Fame caliber” musicians, though they were certainly competent. They relied on pyrotechnics, likely to hide their lack of musicianship. Their main audience by 1977/78 were kids. A lot of their records don’t hold up very well today. Even as a concert draw, they probably weren’t the biggest in 1976/1977. I’d bet Peter Frampton and/or Zeppelin eclipsed them in attendance.
To put them in a league with Led Zeppelin is laughable. Led Zeppelin remained a top draw throughout their career. Their musicianship was superb. Their improvisations were superb. Each LP was different from the previous one and they were all great. Not a stinker in the bunch. Each show was different. They showed growth. They remain the most influential band in rock since the Beatles. I could go on….
But I give KISS credit for hanging in there. They’re on their 4th decade as a band and still draw. Ace Frehley came up with some great guitar riffs, and the others did some good stuff as well. They were the definition of a BAND with each member being a part of a whole, and the whole greater than the sum of their parts. They had some great hits and rock staples. They also introduced a lot of kids into rock and roll.
John G –
I think what you are missing with regards to KISS being HOF worthy is how many musicians were influenced by KISS. The HOF (the sham that it is) is not a Hall of Excellent Musicians. It is the Hall of Fame and there wasn’t many bigger bands in KISS’ heyday than KISS.
I totally disagree with your idea that their stuff really doesn’t stand up today. I would argue that “Strutter” and “Detroit Rock City” are two examples of early cuts that definitely stand up well today.
Hard rock and simplistic.
They definitely deserve to be there before many current members and their time to get in is long past due.
Just because their audience was made up of mostly kids on their tours doesn’t automatically keep them from that honor of getting into the HOF. Beastie Boys concerts were nothing but teen romps with inflatable dicks and that got them in.
I think the last decade or so people are down on KISS because of the overbranding of merchandise and line up changes but it doesn’t by any means erase a pretty extensive body of work – and their latest album is pretty damn good too.
While I would agree that they aren’t in Zepp’s league, it’s a moot point. They are definitely in the HOF league and while they may not belong in the same wing with Zepp, they are definitely worthy of being in the same building. Some of the current members don’t even belong in the same zip code.
I’d argue the opposite, I think KISS, for all its popularity is one of the LEAST influential bands out there. Eddie and a bunch of KISS fans throw around the line about how influential KISS was and no one questions it. I don’t buy it. Yes, a lot of guys first got inspired to pick up an instrument when they got into KISS, but that’s no different than people watching the Monkees TV show and picking up an instrument.
Listen to 1980s hard rock and heavy metal. I’d argue that the most influential bands were Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Queen and Deep Purple. Then for the 1980s clearly Van Halen and Aerosmith. Not a lot of 80s bands sound much like KISS, but a lot of them sound like VH and Aerosmith. More 1980s guitarists sound like EVH or Michael Schenker (if they were European Bands,) not Ace or Paul. People talk about “Beth” being one of the first hard rock band ballads, but “Dream On” came before it. How about the make up? I don’t see a lot of bands wearing the KISS make up influence. And who cares anyways? That ain’t music. Motley Crue came out looking like KISS, but they sounded like Van Halen – and the sound is what people care about and what sells tickets. RATT sounded like Aerosmith. Who’s the big KISS sounding band? Where’s the band with 4 lead vocalists? And BTW – Humble Pie and the Beatles did that way before KISS.
Kiss not in the Rnr hall of fame- albums a don’t hold up well? Destroyer to this day holds up great and the first KISS album is practically entirely still in the live show!
Typical critics yet they were good enough for Garth brooks –
Lenny kravitz- Pantera. Geeze – KISS is a mainstay in American hard rock legend like it or not!
BTW – The biggest late 1980s/90s band, Guns and Roses – sounds more like Rocks Era Aerosmith. No real KISS sound there. Even the heavy bands like Metallica, don’t sound like KISS. List the big KISS influenced bands – not ones that say KISS influenced them, but the ones that sound like KISS. There aren’t many.
40 Million.
KISS has sold over 40 million albums. Their reach is there, their body of work is there. You might not agree with it and want to compare them to everyone who has ever plugged in a guitar but no matter how you slant it, you cannot tell the story of Rock and Roll and NOT mention KISS. You can do all the take aways you want “They didn’t influence this sound or that band or this singer/guitarist” but KISS is more influential than makeup and pyros.
It doesn’t matter who did it first, who did it better, who were harder or who was louder because if it did -you could go back and eliminate 98% of everyone in the hall currently.
KISS’s body of work isn’t there. It’s very spotty. They’ve put out a lot of very mediocre stuff. Songs like “Lick It Up” – c’mon, that’s a joke. “I Love It Loud” – really? A lot of their songs are a joke. I think some of the early LPs are decent and they certainly have some good songs – a couple bona fide rock classics for sure. But most 1970s era bands that were any good also have a few great songs. Might as well put in Foghat, Pat Travers, Blue Oyster Cult, The Outlaws and everyone else with that argument.