Ted Nugent has weighed in on the killing of Cecil the lion, calling the story “a lie.”
US dentist Walter Palmer caused outrage when he shot and killed Zimbabwe’s most famous animal in what he believed was a legal hunt. But, Cecil was being monitored as part of an Oxford University study into lion conservation and was a major tourist attraction at the Hwange National Park – Zimbabwe’s largest game reserve.
Nugent, who is known for his pro-hunting stance, was drawn into the conversation on Facebook when he was asked for his thoughts on the incident.
He wrote, “The whole story is a lie. It was a wild lion from a ‘park’ where hunting is legal and essential beyond the park borders. All animals reproduce every year and would run out of room/food to live without hunting. I will write a full piece on this joke ASAP. God are people stupid.”
Palmer and his guides reportedly lured Cecil from the park before Palmer shot the beast with a bow and arrow. They then caught up with the injured lion 40 hours later where it was shot with a rifle and beheaded.
Palmer said he regretted his actions but maintains he had no idea the lion was a local favorite.
Former Guns N’ Roses drummer Matt Sorum called Nugent a “sick individual” last year when the guitarist posed with a picture of a dead groundhog.
additional source: classicrock.teamrock.com
97 Responses
Dana,
A quote from the link you posted.
On hunting lions in Africa
“It’s an interesting one, because I speak to you as a human who’s decided to dedicate his life to wildlife, and as a scientist who’s dedicated to understanding these things. As a human, it wasn’t many months ago that, together with Andy Loveridge, my colleague in all of this, we were watching Cecil moving out of the national park toward a hunting concession, and as I watched him and thought about him and was in awe of his magnificence, I longed for him to turn around and back to safety, and on that occasion he did.
That right there tells me the lion was leaving the park.
Yes, and his quote also contained the following, which he stated right after the quote you cut and pasted.
“So when I heard about his death now, of course, I was appalled and saddened. The fact that his death was brought about apparently illegally is, of course, completely reprehensible and abhorrent, and I was deeply saddened by that. But as I say, while that sadness is real, if the reaction can lead to us doing more and better work as a result of the appeal, that will be at least some fitting memorial for Cecil.”
Regardless, he was still LURED out of the safety of the park by this dentist and a poacher with the carcass of another animal.
From CNN:
But the lion that he and his local guides killed wasn’t just any lion, according to Zimbabwean officials.
He was Cecil, a major tourist draw at Zimbabwe’s Hwange National Park.
“The 13-year-old lion, recognizable by the black streaks in his mane, suffered a slow death, according to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force.
The hunters lured him out of the sanctuary of the park with a dead animal on top of a vehicle, the conservation group said.
Palmer, officials said, then shot the lion with a crossbow, a method for which he is known. But Cecil survived another 40 hours until the hunters tracked him down and shot him with a gun.” http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-the-lion-killed/
You sound very defensive and seem like you are trying to justify these terrible actions by finding any excuse, and by stating the ole, “Well, there are worse problems in the world.” Of course there are, but that still does not mitigate, nor minimize, the cruelty of this selfish act. Nice try though.
Have a good day,
Dana
Typical anti hunter. No offense…..
I said I totally agree with you that the animal shouldn’t have been shot. So you don’t agree with me on that? I’m not going to read every article on it. Is baiting illegal where they were hunting? If so then yes they are in the wrong. If it isn’t and the lion came to the bait then he’s fair game. Unless there is a law that a collard animal can’t be shot. It’s that simple really. Africa makes the laws. The hunters don’t. Not what I call hunting. But some do & if it’s legal then what are you going to do? Post about it on Eddie Trunk I guess. Also read that there really isn’t much outpouring cries from the citizens in Africa. Mainly just the people from other countries.
Yes, because the country has its own governmental issues with corruption and poverty. That would be an entirely different discourse and would take hours to cover from the war lords slaughtering villages and forcing all the boys into joining the militia, where they in turn are educated in the art of rape and murder, to blood diamonds, to religious extremism, etc. We could go on and on with all the problems facing that country, and their citizens, no wonder why there is no public outcry from the homeland?
Also, despite what you think, while I do admit that I do not care for hunting, I have no issue with it if someone is doing it to feed and clothe their family. As long as the animal did not die in vain, is not an endangered species, or just a trophy, I can sleep better at night.
D
I totally get what you are saying. Thing is we really don’t know what the Dentists involvement really was. Other then spending a fortune for the hunt. He really may not have known what he was really getting himself into as far as what lion he was shooting. Yet his life has pretty much been shredded over it. Which is wrong. I also see that they released the guides on bail. So more things are going to come out on this.
The joke is that we were supposed to be discussing Ted’s comments on the subject, and it has moprhed into a completely different discourse.
However, in Speigel online, they said the biggest consumer for these trophy “hunts” are from America. Here is the quote: “Americans are especially fond of bringing home stuffed lion heads, paws and tails from Africa. Other important importers include Germany, along with Spain and France. Lion parts are also sent to other countries from the United States. The animal’s bones are prized in China to make “tiger wine,” which the Chinese believe has healing properties, and are used as a replacement for tiger bones, which have now become rare.”
So, I am still side eyeing the possibility that the dentist did not know, or have a hunch, that something was fishy. He has been the to the country many times and apparently has a treasure trove of “trophy” kills from Africa. I hate to say this, but even if he cleared of all charges, I will always be somewhat suspicious that he paid someone off for his charges to be dropped. Corruption runs rampant everywhere, even in the most sophisticated countries.
Dana
Seems I am right to have my suspicions, as he has broken hunting laws before:
“Palmer’s actions could have violated the U.S. Lacey Act, a conservation law meant to shield animals from harm. The act, tied to a United Nations treaty for the protection of animals, governs the actions of Americans who violate the laws of foreign governments.
Grace also said the State Department is looking into the matter in Africa. Officials at the State Department did not respond to a request to confirm that information. The three agencies often work closely to investigate crimes against wildlife, often involving the poaching of elephants and rhinoceros throughout southern Africa.
Most recently, they combined forces to investigate Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris in Montgomery, Ala., which led to charges last year for Lacey Act violations, conspiracy, mail fraud, selling illegal rhinoceros hunts not sanctioned by the government and illegally trading rhinoceros horn, which can bring up to $45,000 per pound.
Zimbabwe officials have said the hunt that brought down its famed lion was illegal, regardless of the $50,000 Palmer paid for a permit.
As Zimbabwean officials called for Palmer’s extradition, a petition urging the Obama administration to turn Palmer over blew past the threshold required for an official White House response, CNN reported.
More than 160,000 people have signed the whitehouse.gov petition, which urges Secretary of State John Kerry and Attorney General Loretta Lynch “to fully cooperate with the Zimbabwe authorities and to extradite Walter Palmer promptly at the Zimbabwe government’s request.”
As CNN noted, the petition needed 100,000 signatures by Aug. 27 to get a White House response.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/07/30/u-s-officials-cant-find-the-dentist-who-killed-cecil-the-lion/
So, in conclusion, Mr. Nugent did not do his due diligence before commenting on this story. Yet, we the public, are the imbeciles? Okee Dokee. Must be hard to clarify ones’s statements with a foot stuck in your mouth. 😉
D 🙂
When Marx was critiquing Adam Smith, this Communist never once called Smith “anti worker,” he only critiqued his theories. We’re so lost.
From a MSN article this morning.
Last year, the southern African nation which is still recovering from billion-percent hyperinflation a decade ago, earned $45 million from hunting, Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority head Edison Chadziya told reporters.
Zimbabwe had an estimated 2,000 lions on private and government-owned reserves and issued hunting quotas of 50-70 lions every year, he added.
If they are so close to extinction why are they still issuing hunting tags for them?
Because the country is in abject poverty and would rather line their pockets than be truthful. Lion populations have been on the decline for years, as well as other wildlife in Africa such as Rhinos, Elephants, Giraffes, etc. People won’t be happy until we have none of these majestic creatures left.
From Speigel online:
“International conservation groups are sharply critical of trophy hunting, which they say is partly to blame for the acute plight of the lion. The business, which is booming in South Africa and Tanzania, in particular, is hastening the decline of the big cat, they warn in a petition to the United States Department of the Interior. Commenting on the extensive studies, Jeffrey Flocken of the International Fund of Animal Welfare (IFAW) says: “Many people will be shocked to know how quickly the numbers have fallen.
Flocken and his allies want to see the African lion listed under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), a US law designed to protect endangered animals. US citizens make up by far the largest number of trophy hunters. The lion currently has limited protection under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES).
The consequences of hunting tourism are often fatal for the entire pride. Hunters covet the magnificent mane and therefore primarily target older, dominant males, which leads to a rise in deadly attacks within the pride. To sire their own offspring, other male lions kill the cubs of their former rival, and sometimes even the mothers, when they try to defend the cubs.
To avoid this additional killing of lions, trophy hunters must be taught to correctly estimate the age of their prey, says wildlife biologist Craig Packer of the University of Minnesota in St. Paul. But his appeals apparently fall on deaf ears. “Mr. Lion,” as the renowned lion expert is known, is not against hunting in principle, he says, but notes that quotas need to be drastically reduced.
If we don’t act now, the African lion could become extinct, conservationists warn, and the US Fish and Wildlife Service appears to be taking them seriously. The agency is said to be reviewing the possibility of adding the lion to the ESA list, to the consternation of the African hunting and tourism industry. Such action could result in the loss of 60 percent of the trophy market, Alexander Songorwa, director of wildlife for Tanzania’s tourism ministry, wrote in the New York Times. It would be a disaster for his country, he added. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/lion-populations-in-africa-decline-amid-hunting-and-habitat-loss-a-898955-2.html
Thank you, the end.
Dana
And that “majority” was the impetus for my comment above about being “flip”. You may be in the majority – this time – but what about next time? Ruining this guy’s life? Destroying his business? Harassing his family? Because you – and a majority – draw a different moral line? I don’t agree with what the guy did either, but that doesn’t justify mob rules.
Bill,
I never said that, all I said was that I hoped that he would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Do I think his family should be threatened? No! However, if his patients decide to take their business elsewhere, so that he cannot in turn use their money to fund these hunting expeditions, that is their right as well.
Dana
Maybe you should go post a sign at his closed office…LOL
The average lion in the wild lives 10-14 years.
So I would say they picked an adult. So they must have estimated the age correctly.
Maybe you should go and hunt one, put pictures all over the net and see what kind of reaction you get, tough man-LOL!! Animals do not need weaponry to survive, evolution, and biology, have supplied them with natural tools.
It’s interesting to ponder that if man had not evolved to make tools, and weaponry, just where would we be on the food chain? We really have no natural defenses against nature and creatures.
Sorry, but sometimes the bravado, and arrogance, of our species, can be disappointing because, although highly unlikely, the tides could turn one day, then what?
D
Wouldn’t care! If that’s what I wanted to do & I did it legally then what you going to do? Ruin my life for not doing anything legally wrong? People do it every year. This one is getting exposure because of the Bambi effect.
Good for you. Take a bow.
BTW, this will be my last reply to you. Good day.
D
Dana, since you respect the military, you should know that we soldiers and sailors get into trouble all the time with “pacifists” misinterpreting photos of ourselves on Facebook with our weaponry. The minute they see people with firearms, they insult us as “tough guys”, insecure, etc. As a metal fan, I’m used to being insulted for what I am and do, but the younger enlisted men sometimes react badly.
One of the consequences of this social media campaign against Palmer, I am convinced, is that there is going to be an online jihad against EVERY hunter who posts. Not every “animal lover” distinguishes legitimate hunting from the lured killing of Cecil.
I can see your point there, but just know, I am not one of those type of people. As I have said my real issue with this incident lies with trophy hunting for sport, especially of endangered species.
But again, the main purpose of this story was discuss Ted’s comments, but has veered off course.
Dana
Is it possible that Ted may know more about hunting than Dana? I think she saw an opportunity to jump on the attack-a-conservative bandwagon. Ted’s such an easy target for soap box people. This is so predictable and boring. It’s like you all don’t even care that Joel Hoekstra’s new CD is coming out soon. Stick to the real issues – MUSIC.
dcinsc7,
My name is Dana is I have been the music editor here for fifteen years, and a moderator, I believe, for seven.
I debated whether or not to post this story because I knew it would be controversial, however in the end I decided to share it, not because it is “predictable,” but because Ted is a musician and a public figure, theefore his comments are fair game for discussion. This was also not meant as an attack on conservatives, which always seems to be the rally cry whenever Nugent’s comment’s are up for debate.
While it is true Nugent definitely knows more about hunting then I ever will, it was a bit immature to belittle the masses by calling others “stupid.” How can I take anything he says seriously after he has proven he cannot have a civil discourse without pandering to the lowest common denominator?
Also, could it be possible that Ted made his comments before having all the facts as well? Time will tell.
FYI, I was the one who posted the Joel Hoekstra news to begin with, you’re welcome.
Sincerely,
Dana
Attention all posters,
This story was supposed to be about Ted Nugent’s comments on this incident. Any future comments that do not stay on topic or involve demeaning name calling, will be deleted.
I am all for spirited debate, however when issues that have nothing to do with the topic at hand are introduced, or bullying someone for their opinion is noticed, it will be removed from this thread.
Thank you in advance of your cooperation,
Dana from ET.com
STRANGLEHOLD is a great song.
Dana, thanks for posting the relevant links, and formal sources on here.
You are welcome. 🙂
D 🙂
Bottom line, whether you are a hunter or not, this lion was not considered “wild” in that it was in a protected area of the park, and had to be lured out…secondly, the “guides” this guy used have been arrested, so there must be something illegal about what was done. All of you on here making this a hunter mentality vs a non- hunter are using this forum to subject us to your rhetoric…whether you are a hunter or not, if this was done illegally, then it does matter. I personally don’t care for game hunting, but have no problem with those that hunt and eat their kill…this was not the case here. Lastly, this guy may be telling the truth in that he may have hired these guides, not realizing what he was doing, or maybe he did know…but here goes Nugent again, broadly condemning people regarding hunting, when in fact he should be pissed as a hunter, if someone doesn’t follow the laws of hunting because it gives him a bad name…20 years ago we wouldn’t hear about this, but the Internet has made stories like this global, so many, many people have an opinion
Coredum,
Thank you for that wonderfully mature, and balanced, post.
D 🙂
A over 3 million acre park. I could be pretty wild in that. Lion would also leave the park on it’s own.
This hunt was just bad all around. But lets be honest, If the lion would have been killed quickly without bait ( if it is illegal to use ) there wouldn’t be the uproar about it. If the guys did break the law then yes they should be punished. Oh wait they have already been punished before a trial…LOL.
Cecil was lured the out of the park with an animal carcass. Read the news.
This story still didn’t get as many posts as the old Paul Stanley stories used to.