The bitterness between the current and former members who founded Kiss will not be quelled anytime soon. It’s been a little over a week since the group announced that it would not perform “in any lineup” at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, following Ace Frehley’s comment that he would not perform with current guitarist Tommy Thayer wearing Frehley’s sometime makeup. Now, in a new interview with Guitar World, vocalist-guitarist Paul Stanley has questioned Frehley’s talent.
“What we had at the beginning was magical. . . Ace and I played great together,” Stanley said. “But in my mind it’s a crime what Ace did: He threw away incredible potential and talent. The Ace I played with when the band first started out was a comet – and not [Frehley’s late-Eighties band] ‘Frehley’s Comet!’ But he was burning bright and really had the ability – and this would rub him the wrong way – to be a real contender. But he stopped practicing. He got involved with a whole lot of things that really diluted and diminished his craft. I saw that comet grow dim.”
Stanley added that after KISS fired drummer Peter Criss in 1980, he decided the band needed to reinvent itself, and that’s why they removed their makeup in 1983. It’s a decision he now feels hurt the band. “Rather than saying, ‘We’ve built these iconic figures together and we’re going to continue on with what we built,’ we bought into the idea of, ‘We have to have a new character,'” he said. “That watered it down. Some people may argue with me, but I feel that Batman is Batman whether he’s played by George Clooney, Christian Bale, Val Kilmer and on and on.”
additional source: Rolling Stone
238 Responses
What Paul doesn’t get is Ace has a signature style as signature as his guitar of choice – the Les Paul. Stanley is a guy that changes styles like he has guitars throughout his career. Some might mistake this for diversity, whereas with Paul it’s a lack of identity and having a voice as a guitarist. True he’s a rhythm guitarist, but guys from Malcolm Young to James Hetfield have as signature style, voice, and tone as lead guitarists do. Ace is Ace regardless of the decade. Anyone remember Paul taking the solo spot on the Animalize tour and standing up there with a BC Rich playing two handed hammer ons like a thirteen year old that just discovered Van Halen. It was as retarded as if Angus around Flick Of The Switch had been sidelined so Malcolm could go up there and show off his Van Halen 101 inspired licks. Then who can forget Paul dancing around with his yellow Steinberger guitar adorned with the Body Glove logo graphic on the keyboard laden Crazy Nights album. While Paul was showing us how “he had grown” as a guitarist, Ace was playing his smoking black Les Paul, sounding as Ace as ever, and kicking a** in the Rock Soldiers video. Paul’s playing reflected the Gene and Paul mentality of just go with whatever is popular at the moment. It’s like Paul said, hey Gene, the Bay City Rollers are doing well, so let’s do a bubble gum, pop rock-sounding album called Unmasked. Then Gene turns around, hey Paul, Ezrin just did Floyd’s album, which is a huge hit, let’s do a concept album called the Elder. Then they both look to each other and say, oh sh*t, Van Halen and this new wave of metal are killing us, lets go heavy and do Creatures Of The Night. This cycle continued up to the end of the non-makeup era when as one last desperate attempt they decide to go grunge with Carnival Of Souls. Just as that ship was ready to go under before it ever set sail, while playing acoustic sets at Kiss conventions, in comes Ace and Peter – Kiss is saved. They know there’s no turning around at this point and that’s why they’ll do anything to hold on to their glory days with Ace and Peter. Of course Paul would see Tommy and Eric playing the role of some cartoon character. It’s like when a guy such as Stan Lee created his plethora of comic book characters, they were just that – characters. Anyone that knows Ace and Peter’s backgrounds knows that the Spaceman and Catman are just extensions of THEIR personalities. It would be like Axl Rose putting Bumblefoot in a top hat, having him perm his hair, wear some shades, and adorn him in denim and leather. Not to mention, have him play Slash’s guitar of choice and encourage him to play like him note for note. If Paul would stop following Gene and his brand decisions around like a kid following the Pied Piper, maybe he’d see how ridiculous all of this is and he’d flip his wig. I guess he feels relegated to get in all his shots now before the jeers at the HOF. Meanwhile I’ll be looking forward and supporting Ace’s consistency to deliver his “diluted and diminished craft” as you put it in his new solo album, while your football team fails, and you and your cover band disappear into some remote corner of the world still trying to convince people your band is as legitimate as your supposed progressiveness as a musician.
FACT: Did you know that Charles Dickens wrote such long books ’cause he was payed by the word? It is true. I learned that at QUEENS COLLEGE located in Gene’s old neighborhood and NY METS home of Flushing. I guess I won’t see many of you @ Paul’s book signing in early April. I’d like to go. Axl Rose is a nasty man. Paul Stanley can attest to that. Back to sleep……..
Wow…………. I think nothing else needs to be said.
Very well said!
You’re dead on here. KISS would wait to see what was happening and change course. A lot of people did that though – when disco got big you had the Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart and even the Grateful Dead doing some disco stuff. Bands try to stay relevant with the changing times. But true hard rock bands tend not to change much. ZZ Top, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, UFO for the most part have stayed the course. I think great bands evolve naturally – not in a contrived, market oriented way. People don’t feel the same way when they are 50 years old as they felt when they were 19.
Paul keeps talking about how Ace & Peter hurt the band because of the drugs & alcohol… WE GET IT ALREADY!!!! And Ace & Peter never denied their addictions nor their mistakes, but let;s talk about Gene’s neglect to the band in the 80’s. Besides being a womanizer, Gene was Mr. Hollywood in the 80’s. There are a bunch of songs where outside bass players had to play bass on KISS songs BECAUSE… there was no Gene in sight. Gene himself called Crazy Nights a Paul Stanley solo album. Clearly the band wasn’t the top priority for Gene in those days. So where is Paul’s rope to hang Gene? Oh, let’s sweep that under the “Gene’s” rug. Paul wants to talk how Ace’s comet had dimmed? Go listen to those Paul albums like Animalize, Asylum, Crazy Nights, and Hot In The Shade. They do not hold up today. They are boring and unlistenable albums. I’ll give you Heavens On Fire, but really that time period is quite forgettable. Uh! All Night??? Um… no. The neon colors & sugar-coated music? Um.. no. I believe it’s Peter who has the band’s #1 hit of all time. Not Paul or Gene. I Was Made For Loving You was a huge hit for them. Go to Youtube and listen to the making of that song. You will hear both Ace & Paul writing that song from the ground up. Ace is NOT credited at all! You want to talk about hurting the band & it’s image? It was Gene & Paul’s decision to once again put out all the silly merch (something they said they’d never do again). Talk about losing credibility. Fans outside of the Kiss Army are laughing with all the stupid shit they are selling. Anyone up for a Coffin or a $3,500. book? It was Gene & Paul that went with the disco sound to sell records. The Elder disaster was… that’s right, Gene & Paul’s baby. Point being is that both Gene & Paul need to share in the blame game for the demise of the band and it’s image. Paul needs to shut up. He sounds really silly and he is hurting the already laughable legacy he & Gene are putting forth these days. It’s Gene & Paul that has turned what should be a real high point in their career into a laughing stock with the HOF. We’re not laughing with you Paul… we’re laughing at you the more you open your mouth. You & your brand… I mean band are the punch line. You & Gene have own this mess, not Ace or Peter.
Leo Tolstoy first published WAR AND PEACE in eighteen sixty-nine @ a whopping twelve-hundred and twenty-five pages. I learned that @ St. Raymond’s High School in Aces hometown of the Bronx. Gene was on MIAMI VICE while it was still great so I give him a pass. Eighties era KISS albums all have enough good songs on them to hold up on some levels. In fact the guy whose website were on right now ranks a song from ASYLUM as KISSes best ever. You mentioned toupees, you ever see a guy with one doing cardio @ the gym? They must be hot and stinky. Take it off for God’s sake. I need to sleep now. I just got back from Atlantic City……
Asylum….very underrated album.
That thing has three good songs on it, which are very good..Tears Are Falling, King of the Mountain, and Who Want to Be Lonely, but the rest just completely blows chunks. Lol oh my. That album literally gives me a headache with all the clanging, synthetic background singers, half assed song writing. You know Gene sang his parts while he was on the toilet taking a dump…right?
Thank you Shannon Patrick Mehaffey. If that is indeed your real name. Tears are falling indeed.
Boy that’s class. Taking a dump? Huh. Did you know Elvis the King some allege was trying to do the same in his shower when his heart expired? Love that tender and return it to sender..
What does my post have to do with Elvis? Where is even the co-relation? Gene completely phoned in that record.
But you bought the album, didn’t you.
of course
Tommy might be a more schooled guitar player he might be a faster cleaner player but he’s lacking a couple of things he’s lackig soul and style would love to see a guitar dual between them like some one suggested I think you might be surpised Ace is not joke I saw him do a blues jam with jason hook i think it’s on you tube check it out also check out Cherokee boggie by ace.
That would never happen because Ace would forget where the dual was taking place, then be over 2 hours late.
You know Gene & Paul read these posts. Hey Gene, have you spoken to the Jersey Boys producers for the Kiss Boys on Broadway? I bet Howard Stern rips them the day after the HOF. Def Leppard slot number two this summer. The guys can’t pull a Metallica and do it alone. Just put them on doing “Stone Dead Forever” and you can see why they don’t need a Crue or Leppard.
“These characters we’ve created wouldn’t work with anybody else doing them because they are extensions of our personalities.” I’m paraphrasing here but that is what Paul Stanley said when Kiss was in their prime. And Paul was right. Now to address the rest of Paul’s article: Ace did piddle away the crucial years he had after he left Kiss. Kiss, towards the end, almost gave the guy a nervous breakdown, he was doing the same show every night, which he said he could do in his sleep..It just got to be too routine and he did imbibe in way too many substances, which did affect his guitar playing. But he did progress as a musician in Kiss all the way through Unmasked..there is a pronounced growth as an artist, technically, musically, if you can’t hear the progress he made, then either you don’t know anything about music, or you are on a personal vendetta (Paul). But if Ace had kept his act together after Kiss he could have flourished, Trouble Walkin; features some of his best work. Now, contrast him with Gene and Paul, they need each other, neither of them could make it as a solo artist, whereas Ace, if he would just get out of his own way, could. And they know this.
You do realize that alot of the ‘Ace Frehley’ guitar parts you listened to in the 70’s weren’t him right? Have you ever heard of Bob Kulick? He’s more responsible for Ace’s sound than Ace is.
DR what Kiss records have you been listening to? Ace’s guitar solos got covered by Bob 3 times and by Dick Wagner one time…Paul Stanley played a few leads on some of the 70s records through the Elder….the rest is all Ace…and for all the shredders Kiss has had over the years, Ace’s and Paul’s leads work best for Kiss, they’re very hummable.
You need to read a book or two. What the liners said, and reality are two very different things. Did you like Ace’s work on Destroyer? Tell me which was your favourite solo of Ace’s from that classic album. Maybe for the time being, until your feet get a little wetter you should stay at the kids’ table while the adults are talking.
“Shout it out Loud” is one of Ace’s best solos, very hummable. The liners actually don’t say anything. You mention only one album, out of oh…over half a dozen or so…Ezrin composed the leads for the first two songs on Destroyer. Uh bro, alot of those books are about as legit as that paper that is on that roll in the bathroom. Didn’t you read my post, I know who played on what, half the leads on Unmasked are Paul. So yeah, have fun with reading those stupid books.