In a new interview with the Inside Of You With Michael Rosenbaum podcast, KISS bassist/vocalist Gene Simmons was asked if he had any “good conversations” with late KISS guitarist Ace Frehley before Ace passed away last October at the age of 74.
Simmons responded (as transcribed by blabbermouth.net), “It’s been up and down for 50 years with Ace. And the fans often would hate me for telling the truth. When the kids are at home and there’s mom and dad and all of a sudden dad gets thrown out of the house, the kids don’t understand — they love mom and dad — why mom kicked dad out of the house. And she tries to explain to them: ‘He was a drunk, he was a loser, he was late, didn’t show up on time, didn’t do what he was supposed to do, was barely around the kids, but he’s your father.’ And the fans are like kids. They don’t know.”
He continued, “If you would’ve met Ace at the beginning [of KISS] — God bless him — you would’ve fallen in love with the idea, who he is and all that. And then [as Niccolò] Machiavelli [said], [when you] have power, [you must sometimes] abuse it. It affects all of us in different ways. Me too. But Ace turned to beverages and chemicals. Early on, he wouldn’t show up… I mean, he wouldn’t show up to do his guitar parts on even Destroyer early on. And the fans don’t like to hear this because he’s so talented and everybody, all the new guitar players, were influenced by him and all that. Yeah, but when you’re together in a band, you’re together more time than your family members or your wife or kids. So he’d be late and all this stuff. And Peter [Criss, original KISS drummer], we love him, and God bless, he’s still around, but really from the early days, as soon as the money and the fame came in, it was like the dark cloud came over. And they were both in and out of the band three separate times. And the fans just couldn’t understand it.
Offering an example of how Frehley was unreliable, Simmons said, “We were doing the Eurovision contest, and we were the headliners. People in America don’t know what that is, but 600 million people at that time, now a billion people, tune in to the Eurovision where all the countries in the world basically send their representatives and it’s music based. It’s one of the few times such a large audience in the early days would tune in. Ace didn’t show up. We had to do it as a trio. It just went on and on and on… And had we not been as popular, we would’ve asked Ace to leave. But strangely, the first time Ace left, he turned to us, and it’s sad, and said — this is a quote; he said it to me two times, twice — ‘I’m leaving the band. I’m gonna have a solo career.’ And we tried to talk to him — I know I did — in front of the manager and everybody else: ‘Stay in the band. Have your solo career. Have your cake and eat it too. We don’t want anything from you. If you’re not happy, do other stuff, but don’t break up the band. That’s lunacy.’ And he just never made smart decisions. So, he said on the way out, ‘You just watch. I’m gonna sell 10 million copies of my solo record.’ That’s a quote. And we said, ‘No, don’t do that. Just stay in the band.’ And he said, more than once, ‘If I don’t leave the band and if I do another tour, I’m gonna kill myself.’ So whatever was going on, it breaks your heart.”
He went on to say that despite his issues with substance abuse, Frehley was one of the most influential guitarists of his era.
“You look at his body of work, and guitar players from Eddie Van Halen to — who’s the kid from Metallica? God, I just forgot it — they point to Ace, or Tom Morello and everything, ‘I cut my teeth on guitar by listening to Ace.’ Of course. And he was so proud and so happy to hear from the White House — not from the president — that KISS had won the Kennedy Center awards thing [last year]. And he so much looked forward to [being honored last December]. As a kind of a street kid joins a band and goes to the highest level of American — I don’t know — awards. And he just didn’t make it.”
When asked what he would tell Frehley now if he had a chance to address him, Simmons said, “I should have, and could have, but I should have, a long time [ago], when you see the disease starting to get ahold of him, I should have, decades ago, took, took him aside — it’s called an intervention — and forced him to understand he’s not just hurting himself by his lifestyle choices, but his family, his child and the fans. It was a stupid and shameful decision on all our parts — I know mine too — is, ‘No, you don’t wanna get the fans upset. Let’s make believe he’s in the band and everything’s okay at home.’ And it it’s tough. It’s really tough.
Right now the fans who are gonna listen to this are gonna [say], ‘Prick Gene, he never says anything [positive].’ … But the kids at home don’t understand [what it was like when Ace was loaded on drugs and alcohol]. They never met and spent time with Ace. When he’s straight — lovable, everything’s great. Early on, and when the stuff started to take hold, it was Jekyll and Hyde. You just can’t make smart decisions when you’re drunk or high.”
After podcast host Michael Rosenbaum noted that it’s obvious how much Simmons loved and cared about Frehley, he said, “Look, over the years, whether it was up or down, he’d call and ask for my favor, ‘Can you come up and write some songs with me?’ At the height of me telling him, ‘You’re a moron. You’re making horrible life decisions’ and stuff. But he calls, ‘I’m doing a new record. You wanna write some [songs with me]?’ ‘Sure.’ I got in my car, drove out to the desert where he was, and we wrote two new songs.”
Asked if writing songs with Frehley again was an enjoyable process, the bassist said, “Sure. Because Ace was focused. He cared and was committed to him, which is understandable. We all love our stuff. But when it came to being around other guys… And when it came to guitar, nobody touched him. But when it came to songwriting, unfortunately, there were other guys — Paul [Stanley, KISS guitarist/vocalist] and myself — that wrote most of the stuff [in KISS].”
Last December, Simmons apologized for suggesting Ace‘s death was the result of the guitarist’s “bad decisions”.
51 Responses
Now before everyone bashes Simmons, REMEMBER he was ASKED the question.
However at this point, if Simmons was more mindful, he would remind these podcasters and interviewers, that he has answered this question too many times to count, and he does not wish to rehash the subject anymore, out of respect to Frehley and his family.
100% agree with you, Dana! At least he is consistent with what he says. But enough is enough. Reporters have an obligation to do due diligence before interviewing somebody. If I were Gene, or Paul, or anyone for that matter, I would end interviews if I was continuously asked the same question over and over for decades.
I also feel Gene and Paul have some kind of inferiority complex going on. This would explain the bravado, the holier than thou attitude and continuous bashing of former members over the years (they weren’t always asked and voluntarily brought it up many times). I think the Kiss shitshow started when Ace’s solo album sold more than the other three guys did. The fans seemed to love Ace the most in my opinion. So Gene and Paul’s response has been their bravado and other things they’ve said and done to put themselves front and center. They are guilty of jealousy and greed. And despite being extremely wealthy, I bet deep down inside they’ve been miserable their entire lives.
I agree with your point 100 percent!
That said, I think Gene and Paul AND Ace(!) figured out a long time ago that bashing “the other side” and creating a soap opera/war of words of their own making were sure-fire ways of getting press, helping to promote their next album/single/tour/project, and ultimately keeping them relevant in the media. And let’s face it, 99 percent of the American media is, above all else, lazy. So they keep asking the same three questions with little to no research done in advance (if they’d done their research, they’d know that Paul and Gene have answered this question a gazillion times!). And it works out for everyone – the band keeps themselves alive in the press, the press get their clicks – except the fans.
It took me a long time to acknowledge all the damage I caused through my excessive drinking. I had a blast at first. Then it became my crutch. Of course when I had to face my inevitable unpleasant consequences it was everybody else’s fault. The real cause of my excessive drinking was boredom. I didn’t have any challenging life goals and alcohol can make a boring, lonely day much more tolerable. I’m happy I stopped but I do miss the initial feeling of comfort alcohol gives me. Its so addictive for many people you wonder why its even legal sometimes.
Ace said that if wasn’t for Gene and Paul, Kiss never would’ve gone anywhere…he wasn’t stupid. I think he got tired of the routine and started to get bored with it, and got messed up…the touring wore him out….and after being so prominent in the band for two records…the other two main guys decided they believed their own hype with that Elder record and treated Ace like a sideman, the hired help, which is like getting your soul torn out…so Ace became a shell of who he was in the band….then these guys put his face on a record he’s not even on….like who was Ace to them? this paper shell they could just move around for their purposes? He went from being one of the most respected rock guitarists in the industry to being a complete mess…What I don’t understand is how the cup is always, always half empty with their two former bandmates…it’s just not accurate to talk that way about them, or anybody really.
Nobody’s perfect, neither was Ace, but I’m just so sick and tired of Gene acting like we’re all idiots! We may not have “been there,” but we get it, we can still understand the difficulties the drugs and alcohol caused in the writing and recording process, especially in the live performances, and I’m not justifying or advocating the usage of drugs or the behavior, but dammit give Ace and Peter a fkn break already! It was the 70’s for God’s sake! Other Gene, Paul, and Ted Nugent, WHO WASN’T DOING DRUGS?? We’re all human, we all have vices, addictions, habits, etc., including Gene, his is money and greed! Ace will always be remembered as a guitar hero, and a major influence in the rock world, and NOT as a drug addict like Gene and Paul still refer to him as.
Doug R.,
If Simmons, and the press is to be believed (obviously, I do not have first hand knowledge, never having seen Frehley as a solo artist) his addiction issues went far beyond his years with KISS.
It seems implied, he was still struggling up until maybe only a decade, or less, before his passing? As with many suffering, it is a lifelong battle with years of sobriety followed by years of addiction. A rollercoaster ride, where litigious, or extreme actions, force many into rehab. Ozzy Osbourne is perfect example of the lifelong war with substance abuse. He even wrote a song called Demon Alcohol, because unlike most illegal drugs, where one must seek them out, alcohol is easily available and accessible, to most.
That being “said,” as I wrote initially, just because the interviewers ask, does not mean Simmons has to engage. It has come to a point, that most fans know how he feels about Frehley‘s issues. So, he needs to start to politely declining to discuss the subject matter anymore, and refer the podcasters/interviewers to his older statements.
Gene just needs to stop “Demon”izing everybody who drinks! Not everybody who drinks (casually) is a drunk! Etc…
At least Gene $immon$ acknowledged Ace’s influence as a guitar player and a song writer…..and he forgot Kirk Hammett’s name….Ha Ha! I don’t blame him….nothing about Meh-tallica has been memorable since the “..Justice..” album….
Always can rely on you for a good ‘tallica joke. Kirk is overrated and uses too much wah-wah. And, he’s a really cool guy and all around good dude.
Tasker, I agree Kirk seems like he is a good guy. He is grounded, humble and lacks ego. He was a supportive friend to Jason Newsted when he left the band, showing compassion and respect to Jason. Actually, all the dudes in Meh-tallica seem like they are cool dudes….except Lars, he seems like a big douche..
LOL!!!
Hahaha! You’re funny AF. I love Lars and he’s had douche moments. Fun watching him age as he turns into Smeagol. A very wealthy Smeagol.
Tasker, I think Lars’ greatest contributions to Metallica were his music connections and his understanding of the music business. I think his playing has always been mediocre, at best, and his skills have deteriorated over time. IMO, he can no longer play the great thrash songs of Metallica, and his drumming brings nothing to Metallica’s songs anymore. Drums are the heartbeat to music. And in Metallcia’s case, I think Lars’ drumming has killed Metallica’s music…and he turned the band into Meh-tallica. .
I hear ya’. The guy has created iconic drum parts that’ve inspired many a drummer worldwide for generations. I concur that he’s got an astute mind for the business side of things. He’s also one of the two great minds that writes the composition of their songs whether it’s the first 4 studio albums or everything since the Black album. Cliff can be credited with teaching James & Lars during Ride. The guy can write songs and arrange them as well as run a great business model. Drumming wise, yep, he’s gotten lazy, sloppy and even redundant. He looks like a spider up there on the kit. I love him.
First double bass song I learned was …And Justice For All when I was 16 after getting the album in ’88. He really inspired me. Still does. He was a monster from ’85 to ’99. Then again I’ve heard talk that Cliff and James wanted to get rid of him before Dave. He made too many mistakes live. No idea if that’s true.
I’ve got my Burning Ambition ticket. I take it you’ve got a ticket. Very excited about this. Some fun stuff on Maiden’s website. Blaze Bailey stopped by the premiere in Leicester. I’m in the IMFC, you? Up the Irons!! \m/
Maybe Dana can post an article about them. ;o[ ]==
Tasker, yep, Metallica was trying to get rid of Lars around 1986, but the discussions stopped after Cliff’s death. Even Scott Ian of Anthrax discussed Lars’ possible firing in his autobiography. So, yes, I believe it to be true. Lucky for Metallica, they would not have had the commercial success if they fired Lars and brought in a real drummer, like Dave Lombardo, cuz Lars has the music smarts.
I’m gonna go see Iron Maiden’s “Burning Ambition” movie tonight. Should be killer. No, I am not in the IMFC. As a matter of principle, I refuse to pay to be in any fan club member, regardless of the perks.
Yeah, Dana needs to post an Iron Maiden article! Or question of the week…”Do you prefer Iron Maiden with Paul Dianno or Bruce Dickinson as vocalist”? Or “What’s your favorite Iron Maiden album”? ;o)
Thanks for the reminder of what Scott Ian said. Not sure what you think, but there’s no way Metallica would have survived both James & Dave in the band much longer. Both guys being significantly traumatized as youths by their parents, chemically dependent and all. Then there’s both guys egos. Seems they would’ve end up like they have. The band didn’t handle it very well and I do feel Dave should’ve been shown more respect.
Burning Ambition was fun. Only about 30 fans at my showing. Just left me wanting more behind the scenes and live footage.
Bruce’s smug/cockiness used to rub me the wrong way back in the 90’s. Kinda reminds me of Lars arrogance back in the 80’s-90’s.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Tasker, you might be right about Dave and James not being able to coexist in Metallica. But I do think that Dave was a vital member of Metallica being what they became as a thrash band that eventually launched them to commercial success. Dave wrote great riffs that Metallica “stole” from him, Dave taught James how to be a frontman, Dave got James out of his shy shell, etc…
The Iron Maiden movie was great. About 15 people in my theater. I love how the movie showed how Iron Maiden has much respect for its fans all over the world. I loved the music soundbites in the movie, too. It inspired me to listen to Iron Maiden this morning on my five mile run.
Yeah, I agree with you that Bruce had a cockiness in the 80s. I attribute that to his LSD (Lead Singers Disease). But at the same time, Bruce was just a ball of fire as a frontman and I think he carried that personality with him at all times.
Good description on 80’s Bruce. He was and still is vibrant and boisterous.