Really interesting reading some of Kerry King’s comments about the current Mayhem tour (now in the news section) which features Slayer and King Diamond as headliners. The owner of the festival had made some comments about how difficult it is to keep viable metal acts that draw on a bill while also keeping costs down. He also made some comments about metal and the fans saying some of the artists have gotten “fat and bald and scared off girls” (not like girls were ever the driving force in this genre of metal!). Kerry is one of the most unfiltered people I have ever known in this business. He simply speaks his mind and always did. The tour is clearly struggling to draw and Kerry’s latest comments were basically saying it was not booked correctly. Was really interesting to see the leader of the headlining band on a Summer package tour being this honest. This all speaks to a bigger disturbing trend I can’t quite figure out. MANY bands at all levels being booked in venues they shouldn’t be in. I don’t know if it’s a by product of too many venues, too many bands on the road, or just too many bands over touring (a huge issue I think and a by product of no money from record sales), but every day I am scratching my head about concert bills I am hearing about at all levels in venues they should not be in. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Slayer (now half original) and King wouldn’t be a big amphitheater draw. It’s not a knock on any act, it’s just common sense. But promoters are in a tough spot. They need these festivals and branded tours to go out, but they also can’t got to the next level of talent booking because it would destroy the tickets being affordable. I get that. What I don’t get is club acts in theaters, theater acts in arenas, etc. I would much rather see a band in a setting with a vibe and packed house full of energy than an arena curtained in half or half empty. Or a show that is “papered”, the industry term for giving away a ton of tickets just to make money on beer sales and get bodies in the room. You have no idea how many shows I am asked to help “paper” all the time because they are stiffing. It’s not the artists fault for the most part. It really falls on the agents and promoters to know what they are buying and know if people will care. There is no amount of marketing anyone can do if people don’t want to see a band or have seen them too often. And although a largely papered show may give the appearance of people in the building, it is also easy to feel in the room since most are indifferent because they got in for free. It’s a catch 22 in some ways. Bands need to tour because tickets and merch are pretty much their primary income, but too many tour too much and as a result their draw has been shot. You’re seeing it at the festival level as well. There are a ton of them now, many with very similar bills. Something the organizers of Download in the UK (a huge yearly event) recently discussed as an emerging issue in the business. The idea of a festival was to be a special destination gig. Now they are everywhere. A rock themed cruise used to be unique, now there are many of all genres. It’s just massive over saturation and will impact the little guys more, because the big super acts will for the most part always be able to sell.
Which leads to the next question; what happens when the super acts are done? AC/DC, likely the last tour I would think. As it is there was no real tour, more special scattered stadium dates. Brian is 68? Aerosmith? Tyler as great as he is is 68 and now looking toward country. Sabbath, likely done as far as touring but maybe another run? Van Halen? Anything can happen and it was surprising to read in a recent Billboard article the current tour has been a bit soft in some places selling tickets (apparently ticket prices an issue here as well). Rush? Pretty much done touring. Kiss? Believe what you want but they haven’t been a headline arena act in the US since 2000. Which is why they have co-headlined sheds (and a huge difference between sheds and arenas by the way) for the most part here. Regardless they are likely near the end for what’s left of the original band. Motley? Done in a few months. And they got a huge pop playing the Farewell card and wisely had a name legend opening all the dates. Priest? Said they were done, pulled a reverse, and are hanging in a bit more. But they have not been a full arena headline in a long time here. Maiden? Maybe the biggest global metal act along with Metallica. New album coming and dates in 2016, but these guys are not getting younger and Bruce already had a major health scare and we don’t know yet how he will recover from it. Bon Jovi? Like them or not a massive global stadium act even with just 3 original members. How much more does Jon want to work in his early 50s and with other interests? Where are the next true headliners?
Metallica is erratic as far as how much they play and making new music. But that actually may work to their favor since they far from over tour. You have to hope bands like A7X, FFDP, etc, continue to grow. Foo Fighters are clearly the biggest rock act out there right now and cross over to many genres appealing to rock and metal fans. But outside of Foos, and what Metallica has left in the tank, we really need to hope some of these emerging guys warming up in the bullpen can graduate to the big big leagues. Which leads to an even bigger question. Is that even possible now the way the music is and the way it’s consumed? For a while it was trying to sell downloads. Now that seems to be abandon in favor of just hoping people LISTEN to the music. That’s what streaming is. Don’t even own it, give us nothing, just listen to it! So music has become so devalued today that I wonder if that translates and stagnates an artists potential to even become huge again? This is all just out loud thinking and I welcome your comments and thoughts here. But one thing that does bother me (besides the lack of regard for physical ownership of music) is seeing artists booked in venues they have no business being in, and people saying; “look, I told you rock was dead”. Nobody’s rooting for this stuff more than me. But we have to hope there is a new generation to carry the flag and people embrace new artists they are hearing that they like so the next generation of rock and metal fans has something to celebrate. We are at the tail end of what’s left of the golden era of rock and metal from the 70’s and the 80’s. As for 90’s guys? Foos rule that pack and Pearl Jam are certainly alive and more than well. Soundgarden still viable, but not that consistent as far as playing. AIC? Same deal. Pumpkins and Manson? Currently co headlining sheds. Foos and Pearl Jam the biggest from that era. So where are we at 10 years from now? I wonder and curious what you guys think? Let’s hope there is a kid in his garage somewhere right now with a guitar that has the answer..
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As for the bigger bands: Aerosmith, VH, AC DC, Stones etc.
The prices are crazy. I picked the Stones this year. I got nose bleeds just so I can be there figuring this will be the last time they come. I was able to get those for $100. Anything not nose bleed was really crazy priced. I also thought about Van Halen at $150 I told myself I saw them a couple years ago. Really I can afford one concert a year. Try buying multiple tickets…LOL. Plus parking, food, possible souvenirs. And then you got to deal with crazy drunken idiots most of the time.
As for the other older bands. Many come and have been doing free shows for years. The problem with even free shows is they play the same concert over and over. You get nothing new seeing them. They have no real stage. They just put their instruments out there and do the same songs. I will say many are better now than in the past (living drug free lives) but it is the same thing over and over.
How many times are we going to see a combination of Foreigner, Styx, REO, Journey, etc. These same bands do the same thing over and over. And most don’t even have half the original bands. Saw Foreigner last year. It was zero original members until Mick Jones came out half way through the concert. Really???? It was like a cover band.
AWESOME comments here on this thread!!!
I’m in my early 50’s and started seeing concerts back in the late ’70’s. I agree with many here that one big problem is the !@#$%^&*!!! astronomical ticket prices being charged nowadays. On top of that, the ridiculous fees tacked on by Live Nation, Ticketmaster, etc. make it even more financially difficult for many to buy tickets. And if you want to get really good seats, or go to the soundcheck, meet the band, etc., prepare to fork out hundreds of dollars or more.
One thing that I didn’t see mentioned that is greatly impacting music in a bad way is all of the crappy reality TV shows such as American Idol, America’s Got Talent, and the like. It seems to me that almost all of the musical acts on those shows are pop acts. My two nephews, 17 and 15 years old, grew up watching American Idol and, as a result, listen to what I’d call putrid pop music rather than good rock music. The only reason they even know of bands like Van Halen, Foghat, etc. is from using Guitar Hero.
I agree with others here that the genre(s) we know and like — hard rock, heavy metal — will fade away more and more as the bands we grew up on retire and/or die off, and we the fans fade away (getting too old to care about music anymore, get dementia, die, etc.). The music scene is, in my opinion, getting worse and worse and will continue that way for the foreseeable future. Thanks loads to the crummy reality TV shows for helping to lead the way!
Regarding ticket prices again, I agree with what others here have said in that I am not willing to fork out big bucks to see “my” bands when they’re, quite frankly, over the hill or getting there. Ok, Eddie Van Halen is definitely not over the hill (nor does Alex appear to be), but David Lee Roth sure is where his vocals are concerned, so I ain’t paying $150 to see VH in concert. I paid no more than $10 (even including any service charges) to see huge bands like VH back in 1980 or so. According to the CPI Inflation Calculator, a $10 ticket in 1980 would be about $29 today. Obviously, tickets are way more than that today.
On another note, it’s a damn shame that one of my favorite bands ever, King’s X, charges only about $25 at most for their shows yet still has trouble drawing a couple of hundred people!
Believe it or not, not having American Idol around anymore is actually a bad thing. Those judges are the closest thing we would have to A&R now, and we did get some people from those shows who had something unique about them, Adam Lambert is one, and, there was Jennifer Hudson. But, aside from the horrible contracts those contestants ended up with, the other downside was that the shows allowed the dumb public to vote, and many times, it was for very arbitrary reasons, so the judges ended up just pandering to the masses.
True, the arrival of those shows was a step in the wrong direction, but as things stand now, not having them is actually worse.
We would not need these “talented” scouts if we still had the skilful A&R guys going to all the local clubs in search of new talent. Also, typical of these judges is that what they will say or think about an artist has been pre-selected, pre-written, all pre-devised by the team in the background, they only have to present it and add colour and their personal high profile to the viewing rates. etc. This is all done before they even film the show. They have a small group of possible winners and they will film and broadcast according to this dircetive, so that at the end viewers think that they saw the later winner in the first shows, so they think that they saw him or her making his or her way to the top – when in fact they have been manipulated by clever business people and smart designs. even if the inner does not sell records are be able to actually start a career, the recod company and the tv station have made a ton of money with the television show. already. A team of editors will filter the “talent” before the public will get to see them, so you typically a selection/potpourri of freaks, girls and boys, rock and pop, etc. to appeal to the gretaest possible number of people out there. So there is no real casting and there is no real art. the selction is based upon the same principles as everything in the industry, the question: how and wioth what or whom do we make the most profit? btw This is humerously but also sadly shown in ben Elton’s novel “Chart Throb” that seems to describe a fictitious world but is obviously just describing the reality behind the screen.
Today the decisions of what might be called talent or not is actually a decison about what makes profit or not, these decisions made by lawyers, bankers and economists whose only interest is making maximum profit and who do not understand anything about music. The same kind of people and principles are also behind these casting shows.
As for the “dumb public”, it consists of the same people watching daily soaps commercial channels, so what do we expect?
Well, I kind of liked Simon Cowell, he wasn’t patronizing,, and technically it was a game show, so there are strict regulations regarding fixing the contest. It seems now that telling the truth is the worst thing you can do. People would rather be lied to than get their feelings hurt.
Yes, the old system, as much as people complained about it, is light years better than what we have now. Life is not about solutions, it’s about trade-offs, and the benefits of the old system far outweigh the negatives, it’s just too bad we had to lose it to find out. Record labels used to send bands back to the studio if they submitted sub-par material, A&R reps could spot real talent, and the public, who wouldn’t have a clue as to how to do that job said, “wow, I didn’t know I would like this until now,” discovers a new aspect in themselves they didn’t even know was there. All of that is gone.
Reality shows are a great way for tv stations and music companies to make a ton of money, fast and easy and without having to be actually committed to either artist or art. They will drop the so-called artists as soon as the second album or single will not sell enough copies to keep the shareholders satisfied. On another level, young people in front of their tv sets might come to think that to be a star today you only have to look good, be slim, and sing well. It is as shallow as the whole society has become. A sign of the times. Has there ever been a show recruiting instrumentalists? There is one new show on German televison called “The Band”, guess what? Viewing rates were so low they stopped it.
To answer Eddie’s question — where are we ten years from now — I fear that the music business will be dominated by crappy pop acts and country acts that are much more style than substance. As my generation of rock fans fades away and dies off, the music we love will also die off.
Eddie has a great point about too many acts playing in places that are too big for them. Someone mentioned Dream Theater playing in front of 750 people in a 10k arena…horrible!!!
Style instead of substance, I think, pretty much sums up the whole discussion. Like Apple products, like cheap clothes made in Vietnam, like pop artists looking like models, as long as it is stylish and colourful and the latest fashion who cares about the crappy substance, like a phone that will bend and break once put into your backpocket?
I don’t go to arena concerts anymore because I have more important things to spend my money on like my mortgage. They’re too much money and I’ve seen most of them already. Sound is usually not good.
I went to see Whitesnake at the Star Plaza Theatre in Merrillville, In. last Saturday. It’s a 3400 seat venue. It wasn’t sold out. I paid 62.00 a piece for tickets for me and my wife. It was billed as the Purple tour. I expected to see mostly Deep Purple songs. I bought the album before the show too. They played only 5 DP songs out of 15. This to me was false advertising and I feel I got ripped off. The only reason I went to this show was to see the DP songs. I’ve seen Whitesnake a couple of times over the years. TMS influenced me to go see them.
I much rather go to smaller clubs now to see older bands. At this point I know who still will give you your money’s worth and who won’t at a more affordable cost. I go to see more blues bands now.
I love hard rock and metal, but I don’t want to go to all day festivals where there may only be one or two groups that I want to see. Sheds have bad sound.
Interesting about Whitesnake. I saw them a couple of weeks ago at the Greeley Stampede, here in Colorado. Night Ranger opened for them. There were over 10,000 in attendance. Ticket prices ranged about $50. It was a decent show. Funny how you mentioned wanting more Deep Purple songs. They also played only about 5 DP songs, (I was bummed that they did not play “Strombringer”) but from what I observed, it felt like the crowd wanted even less DP songs and more Snake songs. Snake lineup is very good these days, IMO. Coverdale was okay, he was pretty much on auto pilot.
eddie.the mainstream isn’t showing up to these 1 hour hits shows,thats your topic of your article.just because the song is a deep track,doesnt mean its no good.ac/dc,powerage is a great album,id love to hear down payment blues,whats next to the moon.good songs from the past are good songs,thats how they keep alive,the band plays it,some kid says what was that,goes and burns it for free.heck eddie all I want is a show,some production,not the hits from vh.last thin g ed,vh is doing dirty movies off fair warning,why not stretch it out and go for sunday afternoon in the park,an instrumental,dave takes a break.come on already,challenge yourself,give the fans some bang for the buck.