Really interesting reading some of Kerry King’s comments about the current Mayhem tour (now in the news section) which features Slayer and King Diamond as headliners. The owner of the festival had made some comments about how difficult it is to keep viable metal acts that draw on a bill while also keeping costs down. He also made some comments about metal and the fans saying some of the artists have gotten “fat and bald and scared off girls” (not like girls were ever the driving force in this genre of metal!). Kerry is one of the most unfiltered people I have ever known in this business. He simply speaks his mind and always did. The tour is clearly struggling to draw and Kerry’s latest comments were basically saying it was not booked correctly. Was really interesting to see the leader of the headlining band on a Summer package tour being this honest. This all speaks to a bigger disturbing trend I can’t quite figure out. MANY bands at all levels being booked in venues they shouldn’t be in. I don’t know if it’s a by product of too many venues, too many bands on the road, or just too many bands over touring (a huge issue I think and a by product of no money from record sales), but every day I am scratching my head about concert bills I am hearing about at all levels in venues they should not be in. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Slayer (now half original) and King wouldn’t be a big amphitheater draw. It’s not a knock on any act, it’s just common sense. But promoters are in a tough spot. They need these festivals and branded tours to go out, but they also can’t got to the next level of talent booking because it would destroy the tickets being affordable. I get that. What I don’t get is club acts in theaters, theater acts in arenas, etc. I would much rather see a band in a setting with a vibe and packed house full of energy than an arena curtained in half or half empty. Or a show that is “papered”, the industry term for giving away a ton of tickets just to make money on beer sales and get bodies in the room. You have no idea how many shows I am asked to help “paper” all the time because they are stiffing. It’s not the artists fault for the most part. It really falls on the agents and promoters to know what they are buying and know if people will care. There is no amount of marketing anyone can do if people don’t want to see a band or have seen them too often. And although a largely papered show may give the appearance of people in the building, it is also easy to feel in the room since most are indifferent because they got in for free. It’s a catch 22 in some ways. Bands need to tour because tickets and merch are pretty much their primary income, but too many tour too much and as a result their draw has been shot. You’re seeing it at the festival level as well. There are a ton of them now, many with very similar bills. Something the organizers of Download in the UK (a huge yearly event) recently discussed as an emerging issue in the business. The idea of a festival was to be a special destination gig. Now they are everywhere. A rock themed cruise used to be unique, now there are many of all genres. It’s just massive over saturation and will impact the little guys more, because the big super acts will for the most part always be able to sell.
Which leads to the next question; what happens when the super acts are done? AC/DC, likely the last tour I would think. As it is there was no real tour, more special scattered stadium dates. Brian is 68? Aerosmith? Tyler as great as he is is 68 and now looking toward country. Sabbath, likely done as far as touring but maybe another run? Van Halen? Anything can happen and it was surprising to read in a recent Billboard article the current tour has been a bit soft in some places selling tickets (apparently ticket prices an issue here as well). Rush? Pretty much done touring. Kiss? Believe what you want but they haven’t been a headline arena act in the US since 2000. Which is why they have co-headlined sheds (and a huge difference between sheds and arenas by the way) for the most part here. Regardless they are likely near the end for what’s left of the original band. Motley? Done in a few months. And they got a huge pop playing the Farewell card and wisely had a name legend opening all the dates. Priest? Said they were done, pulled a reverse, and are hanging in a bit more. But they have not been a full arena headline in a long time here. Maiden? Maybe the biggest global metal act along with Metallica. New album coming and dates in 2016, but these guys are not getting younger and Bruce already had a major health scare and we don’t know yet how he will recover from it. Bon Jovi? Like them or not a massive global stadium act even with just 3 original members. How much more does Jon want to work in his early 50s and with other interests? Where are the next true headliners?
Metallica is erratic as far as how much they play and making new music. But that actually may work to their favor since they far from over tour. You have to hope bands like A7X, FFDP, etc, continue to grow. Foo Fighters are clearly the biggest rock act out there right now and cross over to many genres appealing to rock and metal fans. But outside of Foos, and what Metallica has left in the tank, we really need to hope some of these emerging guys warming up in the bullpen can graduate to the big big leagues. Which leads to an even bigger question. Is that even possible now the way the music is and the way it’s consumed? For a while it was trying to sell downloads. Now that seems to be abandon in favor of just hoping people LISTEN to the music. That’s what streaming is. Don’t even own it, give us nothing, just listen to it! So music has become so devalued today that I wonder if that translates and stagnates an artists potential to even become huge again? This is all just out loud thinking and I welcome your comments and thoughts here. But one thing that does bother me (besides the lack of regard for physical ownership of music) is seeing artists booked in venues they have no business being in, and people saying; “look, I told you rock was dead”. Nobody’s rooting for this stuff more than me. But we have to hope there is a new generation to carry the flag and people embrace new artists they are hearing that they like so the next generation of rock and metal fans has something to celebrate. We are at the tail end of what’s left of the golden era of rock and metal from the 70’s and the 80’s. As for 90’s guys? Foos rule that pack and Pearl Jam are certainly alive and more than well. Soundgarden still viable, but not that consistent as far as playing. AIC? Same deal. Pumpkins and Manson? Currently co headlining sheds. Foos and Pearl Jam the biggest from that era. So where are we at 10 years from now? I wonder and curious what you guys think? Let’s hope there is a kid in his garage somewhere right now with a guitar that has the answer..
112 Responses
I am right with you when it comes to rock and metal. I do what I can to help every single day. I used to work inside the industry in a few capacities. I agree with you 100% on both issues: people actually not owning music… Physically, not digitally. And bands booked in bigger venues then they should be. I definitely would rather see a smaller venue packed with a live, hot crowd instead of a bigger venue filled with people just there. I know touring is how most bands make their money these days. I go to as many shows as possible and I always grab merch. We are reaching a period where the golden era bands are winding down. There is also huge oversaturation. For this, I am glad Poison took time off. Since ’99 I’ve seen them 14-15 times. Went to multiple shows on some tours. Bret doing his thing, the other guys doing their thing sets up a “reunion” tour in a year or two. As for arena/stadium bands. I don’t see any of the newer bands reaching that status unless labels really start pushing them again. Radio needs to be responsive and “spin” the songs. Outside of you, Jacky Bam Bam in Philly, and Dee’s national show, I don’t hear much metal getting love on air. Thing is most of the golden era stuff and a lot of the newer metal stands up to what radio plays. And I totally agree about this over abundance of festivals and cruises. Download, Wacken. Rocklahoma, M3 bringing a fest to the US. Now you have a festival everywhere. I hope the north Jersey food truck and rock fest is successful. I’ll continue to fight the good fight and support as much as I can. I’ll promote and spread the word as much as I can. Long live rock, long live metal.
All of these points are interesting. To me thought it’s simply the availability of music now. In the old days you could only get your hands on music from a handful of bands that were played on the radio, mtv or you had to buy it in the store based on the album cover or something you heard from a friend. Now you can pull up Youtube or whatever and listen to killer music in just your favorite genre from tons and tons of great bands. So the competition is huge. Look at the rock/metal tours today. They have to stick 4 or 5 bands together just to fill a venue because while each band is fairly successful their fans are scattered over a wide area so you have to throw out a net to catch as many fans as possible to fill your show. Then with the band’s pay divided among 4-5 other bands they now have to play 4 or 5 times as many shows to make the same money that the bands used to make by themselves which they can’t do so they make a lot less money now which means the rock star lifestyle is gone. You can’t own fast cars and mansions anymore. This makes the lifestyle less appealing to young people. A life on the road living out of a van on tour and then going back home to your apartment or your parent’s house in between tours isn’t all that exciting or glamorous.
There are not tons and tons of great bands today. Most of the “modern” rock bands just suck. Most don’t embrace great guitar, most don’t know how to write a great rock and roll tune that has killer hook! I have been rocking for 40 years, and just puke at most of the modern rock acts. Now, there ARE some young bands that are trying to keep the torch burning. Check out Black Tora! These guys don’t write a bad song, and should be a daily play on XM Octane. Another is Mach22. Still another is Ragdoll from Australia. The problem with the music industry today is that the modern rock stations aren’t playing rock music at all. They are playing alternative and calling it rock.
Its a very sad state of affairs. I’ve been saying it for awhile, but I truly wonder what the music scene is gonna look like in 10 years. When literally all the “big guys” you mentioned are absolutely done and you have smaller bands filling the void.
You bring up all the big points. Overtouring, no record sales, bands playing venues they shouldn’t. And then the biggest concern for me which is overpricing. Listen, bands tour ALL THE TIME now, as you said. Nowadays, I have to pick and choose who I see, since everyone is usually at least $100 when the night is said and done. If bands charged less, I’d see a lot more people. Personally, I think thats up to the bigger bands. Foos, KISS (not that I’d see the current lineup), Van Halen, AC/DC, Aerosmith. If they charged $20-50 for tickets, I’d see them everytime they come around. Because they don’t, I usually have to skip them.
Then you factor in newer bands, who have more of the problem that there just isn’t any way to hear that music. I can keep up with Avenged Sevenfold or Winery Dogs and Five Finger Death Punch, but we are in a world now where there is so much and seemingly so little time to actually “get to know” a new band. I want to get into newer bands, but unfortunately no one seems to be carrying that “legendary” torch. And the ones that do fade away. A few bands I’ve LOVED recently were Taddy Porter and Silvertide, who released one album and then done. Then you have bands like The Answer, that are releasing new music, and doing fine but not really growing. I’ll support them, but there’s really no way to get others into them. And thats also touching on the fact that you have to then determine how serious these artists are. Are they putting out quality music, or just putting something out to put something out? The Answer’s albums haven’t necessarily been bad, but there’s a clear drop off each record and that didn’t used to happen with bands like Zeppelin and Aerosmith. So that affects a growing audience as well.
The saddest thing for me is it seems impossible to get the music out there. People like you will play them, but is it truly doing anything. With no sales from records and people stealing everything, bands are dying out there and its a field I think less and less are wanting to get into, at least seriously and for the long haul. I hope there’s a change, but each year it gets worse and worse. I don’t know where the change comes but I hope its coming soon. Cause most of these big bands will be gone for good soon and I don’t know where we go from there. Something has to change and I’m not in the business enough to know what.
You are right in saying that there is so much touring going on, one just cannot afford to see them all as the prices are high. But on the other hand, we do want the big stage, the lighting, the big and moving screens, the spectacle, with sound and light and the quality of the big screens having become so much better in the last 1o years, this will inevitably lead to higher ticket prices. Today’s technical standards are much higher, and so are people’s expectations, consequently, prices will rise too.
Josh, There are some young bands trying to carry the torch but these bands are not getting supported by whatever music industry is left. Do yourself a favor and check out Black Tora! Killer band, every song rocks! Some other good ones include Ragdoll from Australia and Mach22. I go to Rocklahoma every year, and the “modern” bands playing the mainstage just don’t have it. Bands like Black Tora, Mach22, Ragdoll are playing the side stage and blowing the mainstage bands away yet the good bands cant get a break and get the better stage. That is AEG/the industry at it’s worst.
I think the problem is two fold. First, it cost an absolute insane amount into see many of these shows and second it has kind of got to the point of been there done that. Saw the Stones on their summer tour and 3 tickets were 400 bucks, I paid it but that is half a house payment and makes me much less likely to pay to see, let’s say Van Halen later this summer. On the subject of VH, been a fan what seems like forever but I am about done with them. Generally they put on as predictable a show as a band like them can, I know they have put some songs in their new tour they haven’t been played in years or never. Great! What took so long? Then there is KISS, no thanks! Aerosmith still put on a great show but last time they came to town was on one of these co-headlining tours and we got about 70 minutes and done. My point in all of this there is nothing new or exciting, to me anyway. In my mind the fact that I still call Foo Fighters a “new” band after 20 years speaks volumes about anything up and coming that is going to shake the rock world for fans.
Mark, check out Black Tora! They will blow you away.
Better yet, check out Tora Tora, one of the most underrated bands of the 90’s. LOVE them!
D from ET.com 🙂
Tora’ Tora’s first album is awesome!!
Their second album, Wild America, is also pretty great.
D 🙂
Well, when AC/DC retires, thankfully, there is always Airbourne. 🙂
But, on a serious note, I think the larger issue is that the younger generations, in America, do not seem to have a rabid passion for rock music, anymore. Additionally, the outlets that once used to expose emerging artists to the masses, such as MTV, have changed their formats, and do not have the same influence as they did many years ago.
Even opening slots for bands on major tours does not garner the success it once used to in the past. Although Silvertide, who happened to be a very good band, had some brief exposure, and recognition, opening for Van Halen in 2006, they did not manage to garner any long term traction.
Unfortunately, the template and passion for music, in general, has changed. So, either rock will have adapt and conform to this new paradigm, or rebellion against it, to create a new renaissance (and I don’t mean in the medieval sense). But then again, it’s after 1:00 am in NYC, so, I could simply be overtired and talking out of my butt.
Cheers,
D from ET.com 🙂
Dana,
Your butt is saying a lot of what I was thinking. There are a number of factors at work. First there is the collapse of the recorded music industry as a whole. I contributed to that. I would dare say that 60-70% of my music collection is pirated music. There would have been outrage if that many people walked into a Wal-Mart, Best Buy or f.y.e. and looted the place. Its the same larceny, but just without the B&E. This isn’t a new story for rock’n roll though. Woodstock wasn’t intended to be a free concert either. Whenever your primary audience is young people, you have to expect lapses in judgement.
Second is the lack of a reliable mass media outlet for hard rock and metal. We used to have AOR stations and later MTV. There were places you could go to hear the new up and coming bands. Once the mass media began to buy into hard rock and metal, it did what it always does. It clones it again and again and squeezes the creative life out of it. The last real creative gasp was Metallica’s Black Album. From that that time on, radio moved on to the next big thing and metal fans were left scratching their heads. The truth is we aren’t mainstream. We never were mainstream. The nostalgia era had begun. In terms of popular culture, metal bands are right there next to the Rubik’s Cube and Beanie Babies. Its a cute little phase our parents went through.
Third is the “Great Recession” of 2008. A lot of rock bands during that time suddenly saw a huge dip concert attendance due to the fact that most people didn’t have the disposable income to go to see the shows anymore. To a certain degree, we are still there. I haven’t been to a concert since ’09. There’s too much going on at home and I need to buy my kid clothes.
Of course, it all makes sense if you believe Lester Bangs.
“They wouldn’t be heroes if they were infallible, in fact they wouldn’t be heroes if they weren’t miserable wretched dogs, the pariahs of the earth, besides which the only reason to build up an idol is to tear it down again.”
My personal experience from working with teenagers is that the values and dreams are just different. A lot has happenend since the 80s and shaped our western societies, thus the way (young) people think and dream. If young people make music today they more and more use electronic/computer devices to live out their creativity. Again, there is a world of patterns, licks, structures and sounds and virtual instruments digitally available to create your “own” song. Learning an instrument like the guitar does take time and endurance, whereas the operation of computer devices is natural to every kid these days, so if these “instruments” are no longer as desirable as they were, why take the hard way? Why not take the devices young people of today find desirable? In my country also the local venues where a new band could find an audience have changed their policy, they no longer give new bands with original material a chance, they would rather book the tribute bands that draw a certain amount of people by impersonating Pink, Zep, Genesis, you name it. So where can a new band start a career? Also, the mainstream sh… that is played on the radio contributes to this development. For every Beyonce there are a hundred clones all getting airplay, the industry does not take a risk to support a band that has some unique or even edgy sound. This all is a very sad development but may be just an implication of a world of fast changing technology and a society growing towards worldwide uniformity which devalues the work of single artists and leads to a consumation of music or film that makes it all discretionary. Why buy something that comes for free on YT ? There is no mens rea in the young people, for them it is not like stealing anything, their mindset is just different. I do not like it, but there is no denying the fact. The reason, on the other hand, why we are again taking about the lamentable fading of the great bands is just because these bands and their music have been everything but discretionary to us, it has always been special and precious, as part of our identity. In case rock music will not be part of the younger generations’ identity, it will also fade along with us. But that is the way of the world, fashions and styles and philosphies come and go, it has always been that way.
Great article Eddie! I totally agree with Dana… I think the younger generation is the biggest problem. Music isn’t promoted close to the same way it was 20 years ago. MTV and VH1 are dead ends unless u want to see awful reality programs, which is sadly what the new generations want to see. When rock, metal and grunge were at their peak, you needed a video to promote your songs and record companies were more than willing to shell out the dough to produce them. Try getting a record company to fund a video shoot today. Depending on the milliennial generation is like depending on you’re drunk uncle to drive you home after a family BBQ. They’d be lost without the internet, YouTube, spotify, pandora, iTunes, etc. They’ve never known what’s it’s like to wait in line in front of Sam Goody or Tower Records for your favorite band’s album to come out… go to a ticketmaster outlet at 3am to wait for tickets to go onsale for a show you have to see, or anything that involves any kind of passionate effort. Millennials have been spoon fed everything their entire life and have no idea what hard work and determination is. Rock could be in trouble depending on these kids… I pray I’m wrong.
I totally agree. It is sad, but how can you be passionate about something that only “costs” you a mouseclick’s worth? How can you get excited by something or strive for sth. that is already all around you like the air that you breathe? If everything (ie. in our case, music) is there in abandunca 24/7, everywhere you go, all for free now, how can develop a sense of valuation? In this new world of superfast changing technology the new gurus are the new media and technical devices associated with these new developments, CDs, albums even no loner being the desirable objects that give meaning to your life or at least express your feelings in the physical world. In the past you might have shown your identity and thinking by listening to certain bands, today you show your peers your social affiliation by always buying the latest smartphone.Maybe someday the new generations will discover that they live a cold life of uniformity with nothing to really long for.
abundance, of course …
I got Def Leppard/Styx/Tesla tomorrow night, Motley, VH, AC/DC next month, and The Scorpions in September, and I am going to savor every second! Nothing lasts forever, except for the memories! 🙂
So tomorrow night, after my Psychotic Supper, I’ll be at the Paradise Theatre, “Rockin’ The Paradise” with my buddies, until we’re “High ‘N’ Dry!” Cheers! 😉
Eddie is spot on as usual, I don’t even know where to begin, but I’ll just give my $0.02. I’m on the road this summer doing a job out of nyc area, but I drove 4 hours out of my way to chicago to see mayhem to catch slayer and king diamond, and I also was shocked at the relatively smallish crowd (6000 i heard)in the huge venue that is the chicago shed 30 minutes south of downtown, the lawn was closed and they were upgrading people for free into the rear seats, I think a lot of people were pissed because they wanted to mosh and slam and smoke and drink but the venue had less staff probably on hand and didn’t feel like cleaning up afterwards. As for the afternoon lineup it really is a bunch of marginal death metal bands with very limited following but the hardcore fans were there, and others just checking it out. I want to say I give a lot of credit to kerry king he is very outspoken and controversial but to his credit he does a free free free autograph session everyday under 1 of the sponsors tents, other bands charge several 100 dollars for the meet and greet, but he is the headline act and he does it for free free free just to meet fans and sign their stuff, so he gets nothing but a compliment from me, the line was long and it was pretty hot so I took a picture from the side and it was good enough for me. Hell yeah is a great live band, but i honestly don’t know the material that well it’s always good to see vinny paul out on the road, I am a huge king diamond fan, only my third time to see him live and I was out of my mind for the full hour, seen slayer many times since 1986 raining blood tour. And with all due respect to past members they are as tight now has they ever have been and are a great great live act so it was well worth the extra hours on the road, and the extra hotel bill it cost me to see them, that being said there are simply way too many acts on the road, no one is going to give me shit that I don’t support I see a ton of shows of not just metal, also country, and some mainstream rock, seen billy joel 3x this year at MSG it’s a great show people, if it’s not your thing I understand, but it is sold out once a month it’s a huge deal I also go to many club acts and theater shows, believe me my wife gets pissed when I don’t come home after work once a week because I went to see Faster Pussycat play a hole in the wall in Midtown, or I was up late at Machine Head,… I, will try to see van halen next week here in saint louis as I’ve actually never seen them with roth, but I’m not going to spend 150 dollars to sit in the back of the seats, it’s probably going to be the lawn. I went to see rush twice in new york city area because they are phenomenal and they deserve it. and you know I have my AC DC tickets for the floor at Giants Stadium next month!! F–k yeah!