Wanted to post earlier today but we had to actually upgrade our server because of all the activity on the site this weekend (thanks webmaster David for your help!). Now that Gene and Paul have weighed in on the HOF drama of the weekend we have a pretty clear picture on the eve of tickets going on sale that Kiss is not playing at all now in any form. Clearly they had to make some statement here after all the fallout from Ace on my radio show Friday night and Peter’s statement yesterday. So now that all sides have weighed in here is MY analysis of all of this for those interested as far as what has gone on.
Gene and Paul were never going to play with Ace and Peter at this event. Just wasn’t ever going to happen. Look no further than Paul’s official Twitter a few weeks ago when he essentially said as much. Ace, Peter, and MANY members of the HOF I spoke to over the last few weeks confirmed they wanted to play with the current band and had no intention of an originals reunion. The Kiss statement saying “we don’t believe the memory will be enhanced” in playing with Ace and Peter really translates to Gene and Paul not wanting to open a can of worms, and honestly likely not thinking they can cut it with them anymore. They know this can’t be a jump up and jam thing. They need to rehearse and prepare to do it right. That would require them reconnecting for a few days. That opens cans of worms so to speak. So they were never going to go down those roads with the original band. In their view too complicated and just like at MTV unplugged, it would make it very hard to continue to sell what they are now doing afterwards. Ace, Peter and the HOF didn’t just make it up that they didn’t want to play with them. Perhaps they would have allowed Ace and Peter to come up at the group jam at the end, but Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace alone on stage playing a song was something Gene and Paul were never going to allow or have happen. To them it’s complicated on way too many levels. So once Ace and Peter released their statements Gene & Paul’s only way out of the backlash was to check out of playing all together which they did today. And you know what? No matter how this was arrived at it is the best available scenario given they won’t play with the original band. Since the original four are being inducted out of respect no performance is better than Ace and Peter having to watch the current band. I think this also makes it likely (but far from 100%) that everyone at least shows up and speaks. So what we hopefully end up with is a photo op of the original guys, a few words from each, then some sort of all star Kiss tribute band or video package. The HOF will now have to figure that out. But I can tell you this is a victory of sorts for Ace and Peter who now may attend and will not feel dissed having to see personas they created playing at their induction. But it is clear, and I have confirmed with many over the last month involved with the HOF, that Gene and Paul would not play with only the original band at this event. The HOF wanted that, Ace and Peter were up for it (as Ace said on my show when first announced as going in) but Gene and Paul would not have it and wanted to play with the current band. Again, Paul said “very unlikely” over a month ago on Twitter when asked about a reunion and “no way” to them wearing makeup. So where this is all coming from should not be a surprise. It’s pretty clear and honestly it is Gene & Paul’s right at this point, even if you disagree strongly with it. They own Kiss like it or not. To me anything else is spin and damage control at this point. But again, to me, this is the second best scenario given only the originals are being inducted. At least it gets them all there hopefully!
A few other things; do Gene and Paul attend? They say in their statement they will “celebrate” the induction but that doesn’t always mean show up. I would assume they would, but none of the original four have clear cut said yet “we will be there”.
Clearly Gene and Paul are annoyed (and you can make the case rightfully so) that only the original four are being inducted. However their statement left out Vinnie Vincent (a HUGE contributor to Kiss comeback of the 80’s) and the late Mark St John. We all know Kiss and Vinnie had their issues, but if they truly wanted to celebrate KISStory completely Vinnie would certainly at least deserve an invite and mention? I have said all along I think it had to be only the original guys or EVERYONE who was in Kiss to do this right. Kind of hard to pick and choose. The HOF decided only originals. So when they said in their statement “the entire history”, they are still leaving out some gaps.
And that’s another issue. Kiss in their statement continue to allude to all the success they have had without Ace and Peter. Relatively speaking that is true. But you can not discount the fact that the bands biggest periods by far were with the original band. The 70’s were most iconic, then the 90’s reunion was equally huge. Who knows if Ace and Peter didn’t do the reunion tour in ’96 if there would even still be a Kiss today? Reunions happen because bands need them and they are much bigger than whatever that band is doing at the time. Nobody does a reunion tour because it means less people or interest. Current Kiss does very well in festivals and some parts of the world. But to say in America the band is as big as ever (as I have heard stated) is just false. The last full US tour was a CO HEADLINE. You don’t go 50/50 with another band unless you need the help. On the flipside it is without question true that Gene and Paul have kept this alive for 40 years and steered the ship (with good and bad decisions in my view), so without that commitment who knows what would have happened? There were several versions of Kiss. I was a fan of many. But the simple truth is nothing was or will be bigger than the original four guys. That is just fact if you really take in the history.
If the HOF had decided to induct all the members then for sure the case could be made that everyone plays. But they decided to induct the four that started it all only. It sucks for us fans that the powers that be here wouldn’t make that work for at least a song or two, but I think where we arrived at today with no performance is the second best scenario. Now let’s see if they all show, who does the induction (I know but can’t say!) and what the HOF does as a tribute. It’s been a wild weekend since Ace started this with his announcement on my radio show late this past Friday night (audio on the home page) and where we go from here should be interesting as well. I’ll be live on SiriusXM channel 39 6-10P ET tomorrow and will take your calls. That’s MY take, look forward to yours here on the site or on the radio.
Oh, one last thing. Much has been made about the impact all of this will have on sales to the event tomorrow. The timing here was key since MANY were going to come from around the world assuming a performance by the original band one last time. So clearly it’s great those people now know the deal. I think it will for sure change the dynamic of the crowd makeup in the building that night. But as long as the original four show up I’d say a good showing from Kiss fans will be there. But nothing like if it was a reunion performance. Also remember there are many other bands being honored that night. Nirvana and Springsteen also have pretty big bases. So I suspect ticket sales will be just fine when that is all factored in. I’m sure there will be much more to discuss. Never dull being a Kiss fan!
185 Responses
God forbid something happens to ACE or Peter ( who already had a scare ) in the near future? Would Gene or Paul actually regret this shit? The HOF basically has thought KISS was a joke. They finally accept them in and that’s exactly how they behave. The four original guys were inducted. Paul and Gene couldn’t control this so they act like spoiled children. The four original guys busted their balls TOGETHER, made the world take notice TOGETHER, built a fan base 40 years strong TOGETHER. If they fizzled out in the ’80s they would still probably be in the HOF based on the four original guys. Everything else in KISStory is just icing on the cake, let’s face it. Sure Gene and Paul deserve the credit for keeping the band around as long as they have but, if it wasn’t for the original band, there would be no band to keep around. How could they be so smart yet seem to not realize that this would happen? The vile things being said about them? How uncomfortable Eric and Tommy must feel now? The potential lashing out at Paul’s book signings. When all they had to do was make it clear it would be two or three songs….put a killer clip package together featuring EVERYONE else who has contributed to the band and thank every FAN for their loyalty, and go back to doing what everyone was doing the day before. I understand about not wanting to upset what “they are pushing now”, but at this point I really don’t think this would have affected it that much. Based on the backlash so far I think they have to be at least second guessing those two scenarios. Also….when they first started this re creation of classic kiss they said they weren’t trying to fool anyone and made it a point that people knew it was Eric and Tommy. O.K. Then…it shouldn’t affect people seeing ACE and Peter again for one night. All the diehards understand what is happening and the newbies can carry on as they are, accepting the “new version”. Wouldn’t this have generated maybe new interest in their old catalogue also? What you say?…..the current band also generates interest in the old catalogue? Yeah..and when they go buy it, they will find ACE FREHLEY and PETER CRISS on it !!! Not the “spaceman” and “catman”. My god this is laughable all around.
I’d like to add…..INFLUENCE has always seemed to be cited as the main criteria in bands being inducted, which is why it was laughable why KISS was ignored for so long. Sure, KISS influenced many a stage show BUT, KISS also has influenced many musicians MUSICALLY. The fact CANNOT be ignored that Peter and ACE especially, were instrumental in that. Say what you want about Eric and Tommy as musicians, but does anyone with a sane mind think either one of them influenced anywhere near as many? The comparison in the body of work between ACE and Tommy in particular is laughable. I don’t care how long Tommy has been with them or the handful of songs ACE wasn’t actually on. Compare THE BODIES OF WORK. For gods sake, Tommy (aside from the last few releases) has merely been COPYING the work of ACE FREHLEY! Is there any doubt which of those two guitarists should be in the hall of fame under that criteria?
I agree Steve. I think Peter was crushed that as philanthropic as Gene is, that he never said shit about Peter’s cancer or never donated a dime to some of the cancer walks he’s participated in. It would’ve been GREAT, positive publicity for Simmons and KISS on a whole had Gene spoken up and out about Peter’s battle.
Also agree that Eric and Tommy must be feeling like crap about this- the old fans hating on Eric and Tommy, the new fans hating on Peter and Ace. Gene playing the ringleader and posting all the vicious tweets and gloating about it.
Gene is behaving like a bully in a schoolyard.
“Gene playing the ringleader and posting all these vicious tweets and gloating about it” behaving like a bully in a schoolyard. Dude!! You must live in Colorado! What are you smoking? What vicious tweets? What bullying? Gene has hardly said a word, except for in the beginning and he was very gracious. I would hardly say Pauls tweets were vicious. Go back to smoking weed in your moms basement. Ridiculous.
If you read Gene’s twitter feed, he retweets tons of negative tweets about Ace and Peter. Yes he is gloating about it. Posting them alone, is showing his nod of approval.
Paul posts vicious tweets to people who call him out. For two men 60 something years old, they’re behaving like they’re back in high school.
Why are you referring to me as a ‘dude’? Are you 15 years old?
You, who or whatever you are, need to crawl back under your rock.
Ace looks like he’s been dead for years.
LOL! He does look like ten miles of bad west Texas road.
Why can’t Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace come out to play, in make-up or not, one song and then bring the remaining subsequent members on stage after that? Pay homage to the original band as they created the rocket ride (pun intended) we know as KISS, then move on to allow homage to be payed to the band as a whole. I have been a very big fan of KISS for as long as I can remember. What I know is that there would be no KISS without Ace Frehley and Peter Criss. They are both “founding” members of the band. They both also created the stage personas they used on stage. There would be no Space Ace without Ace Frehley and there would be no Catman without Peter Criss. In my humble opinion Gene and Paul realize that Kiss without the original make up does not sell as well. That is why the current line up uses Space Ace and Catman instead of the Fox or whatever other characters did not quell the audience’s thirst for the show that KISS is so famous for providing. Gene and Paul brought Ace and Peter back into the band in the 90s because their unplugged performance showed them that it would propel them back into the forefront of rock and roll and that it would make them much more money than they already had. The subsequent band members know how important Ace and Peter were to the band and I am sure it would not hurt even one of their feelings if the four original members played a single song without them first.
All this crap about “the original four” “the original guys” “the original guys” bla bla bla….. THEY HATE EACH OTHER, LIVE WITH IT!! People get divorced, couples break up, friends become estranged from each other. That´s life. Gene & Paul have moved on while Ace & Peter can only drag their sorry asses to the one guy that, still, blindly listens to all the crap they say.
Fanboys suck!
It’s an award numbnut. No one is saying they have to be friends again. Blame the HOF for wanting “the original four”. That’s who wanted them to perform together. And even divorced people will show up and be civil at a child’s wedding and act like adults for a fuckin’ hour. And ACE and Peters “sorry asses” as you put it, don’t even want back in. They HAVE moved on. Again…it’s a fuckin’ award show and it’s being offered to the four who started the band. What don’t you get about that.
If the money was right ace and Peter would be back.
Peter is 68, you really think he is up for a tour? He told me he was sore after a few songs at my party. Nobody can do this forever and better to see them stop than stay too long in my view..
My two cents on all this: Gene and Paul decided to pull the plug because of, as Eddie also mentioned, the implications a reunion performance might have.
As we all could see during the Unplugged gig, the audience booed Bruce and Eric when they came back on stage. I guess Gene and Paul feared the same would happen if they played with Fake Ace and Eric. So they spoil the fun for everybody.
With all the Paul Stanley’s and Criss’s here, I think I’m going to start signing in as Gene Frehley.
Actually, that was worth about an eighth of a peso, not 2 cents.
Paul and Gene could be called greedy, but who wouldn’t want to make the most of a brand that continue to sell…year after year? Who says no to “easy money”, filling up your bankaccount, but those money is also the result of the hard work they layed down in the 70’s. Ace and Peter were important bandmembers back then, but what if Paul and Gene were like them? Would there be a Kiss after 78? Would we in 2014 go “Remember that band back in the 70’s with the make up…what was their name again”? Ace and Peter are still loved by the fans, but Paul and Gene have not only kept the band alive, they have kept the memory of Ace and Peter alive as Kiss Legends. Do I agree it’s ok dressing up Thayer and Singer as Ace and Peter? No! Do I care? I used to, but I’m just happy having one of my favorite bands around for a younger generation to experience. And to be honest: Thayer and Singer make Kiss sound great live. I don’t care much for the HOF. It’s a joke. Some fans think it’s a big deal. Why not show up, guys, and do ONE song on stage, unplugged? Have some superstars do 1-3 covers. There are other bands/artists that night as well and I’m sure it will be fun 🙂
I do hope Simmons and Stanley will have a change of heart. It would be great to have all four together again. I am betting they’ll rethink it because they have had a huge backlash over this.
Good post