Wanted to post earlier today but we had to actually upgrade our server because of all the activity on the site this weekend (thanks webmaster David for your help!). Now that Gene and Paul have weighed in on the HOF drama of the weekend we have a pretty clear picture on the eve of tickets going on sale that Kiss is not playing at all now in any form. Clearly they had to make some statement here after all the fallout from Ace on my radio show Friday night and Peter’s statement yesterday. So now that all sides have weighed in here is MY analysis of all of this for those interested as far as what has gone on.
Gene and Paul were never going to play with Ace and Peter at this event. Just wasn’t ever going to happen. Look no further than Paul’s official Twitter a few weeks ago when he essentially said as much. Ace, Peter, and MANY members of the HOF I spoke to over the last few weeks confirmed they wanted to play with the current band and had no intention of an originals reunion. The Kiss statement saying “we don’t believe the memory will be enhanced” in playing with Ace and Peter really translates to Gene and Paul not wanting to open a can of worms, and honestly likely not thinking they can cut it with them anymore. They know this can’t be a jump up and jam thing. They need to rehearse and prepare to do it right. That would require them reconnecting for a few days. That opens cans of worms so to speak. So they were never going to go down those roads with the original band. In their view too complicated and just like at MTV unplugged, it would make it very hard to continue to sell what they are now doing afterwards. Ace, Peter and the HOF didn’t just make it up that they didn’t want to play with them. Perhaps they would have allowed Ace and Peter to come up at the group jam at the end, but Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace alone on stage playing a song was something Gene and Paul were never going to allow or have happen. To them it’s complicated on way too many levels. So once Ace and Peter released their statements Gene & Paul’s only way out of the backlash was to check out of playing all together which they did today. And you know what? No matter how this was arrived at it is the best available scenario given they won’t play with the original band. Since the original four are being inducted out of respect no performance is better than Ace and Peter having to watch the current band. I think this also makes it likely (but far from 100%) that everyone at least shows up and speaks. So what we hopefully end up with is a photo op of the original guys, a few words from each, then some sort of all star Kiss tribute band or video package. The HOF will now have to figure that out. But I can tell you this is a victory of sorts for Ace and Peter who now may attend and will not feel dissed having to see personas they created playing at their induction. But it is clear, and I have confirmed with many over the last month involved with the HOF, that Gene and Paul would not play with only the original band at this event. The HOF wanted that, Ace and Peter were up for it (as Ace said on my show when first announced as going in) but Gene and Paul would not have it and wanted to play with the current band. Again, Paul said “very unlikely” over a month ago on Twitter when asked about a reunion and “no way” to them wearing makeup. So where this is all coming from should not be a surprise. It’s pretty clear and honestly it is Gene & Paul’s right at this point, even if you disagree strongly with it. They own Kiss like it or not. To me anything else is spin and damage control at this point. But again, to me, this is the second best scenario given only the originals are being inducted. At least it gets them all there hopefully!
A few other things; do Gene and Paul attend? They say in their statement they will “celebrate” the induction but that doesn’t always mean show up. I would assume they would, but none of the original four have clear cut said yet “we will be there”.
Clearly Gene and Paul are annoyed (and you can make the case rightfully so) that only the original four are being inducted. However their statement left out Vinnie Vincent (a HUGE contributor to Kiss comeback of the 80’s) and the late Mark St John. We all know Kiss and Vinnie had their issues, but if they truly wanted to celebrate KISStory completely Vinnie would certainly at least deserve an invite and mention? I have said all along I think it had to be only the original guys or EVERYONE who was in Kiss to do this right. Kind of hard to pick and choose. The HOF decided only originals. So when they said in their statement “the entire history”, they are still leaving out some gaps.
And that’s another issue. Kiss in their statement continue to allude to all the success they have had without Ace and Peter. Relatively speaking that is true. But you can not discount the fact that the bands biggest periods by far were with the original band. The 70’s were most iconic, then the 90’s reunion was equally huge. Who knows if Ace and Peter didn’t do the reunion tour in ’96 if there would even still be a Kiss today? Reunions happen because bands need them and they are much bigger than whatever that band is doing at the time. Nobody does a reunion tour because it means less people or interest. Current Kiss does very well in festivals and some parts of the world. But to say in America the band is as big as ever (as I have heard stated) is just false. The last full US tour was a CO HEADLINE. You don’t go 50/50 with another band unless you need the help. On the flipside it is without question true that Gene and Paul have kept this alive for 40 years and steered the ship (with good and bad decisions in my view), so without that commitment who knows what would have happened? There were several versions of Kiss. I was a fan of many. But the simple truth is nothing was or will be bigger than the original four guys. That is just fact if you really take in the history.
If the HOF had decided to induct all the members then for sure the case could be made that everyone plays. But they decided to induct the four that started it all only. It sucks for us fans that the powers that be here wouldn’t make that work for at least a song or two, but I think where we arrived at today with no performance is the second best scenario. Now let’s see if they all show, who does the induction (I know but can’t say!) and what the HOF does as a tribute. It’s been a wild weekend since Ace started this with his announcement on my radio show late this past Friday night (audio on the home page) and where we go from here should be interesting as well. I’ll be live on SiriusXM channel 39 6-10P ET tomorrow and will take your calls. That’s MY take, look forward to yours here on the site or on the radio.
Oh, one last thing. Much has been made about the impact all of this will have on sales to the event tomorrow. The timing here was key since MANY were going to come from around the world assuming a performance by the original band one last time. So clearly it’s great those people now know the deal. I think it will for sure change the dynamic of the crowd makeup in the building that night. But as long as the original four show up I’d say a good showing from Kiss fans will be there. But nothing like if it was a reunion performance. Also remember there are many other bands being honored that night. Nirvana and Springsteen also have pretty big bases. So I suspect ticket sales will be just fine when that is all factored in. I’m sure there will be much more to discuss. Never dull being a Kiss fan!
185 Responses
I have pretty much the same history with KISS as you do, Eddie & many of the fans that grew up in our generation. I was an instant fan in the mid 70’s the first time I dropped the needle on Destroyer. For the rest of my life KISS has always been my favorite band even though there were plenty of ups & downs. I have also stood my ground with my opinion that they went too far when they put Eric & Tommy in the makeup. I understand why they did but I still believe it was disrespectful to not only Ace & Peter but the legacy of the original band. I don’t fault them for wanting to continue after the reunion but I also know they could have NEVER been anywhere near as successful after that. Their decision to continue with the “image” of the original band is probably the only reason they are still together & able to continue to tour but to myself & many of the original fans it was still the line in the sand. That being said this is not surprising to me at all but regardless of what happens at the ceremony, they are & always will be my favorite band because of the impact they have had on my life since that still very vivid memory of hearing those first chords of “Detroit Rock City”. At the end of it all I, as a fan am still celebrating the fact that KISS has finally been inducted & recognized for the impact they had on the history of music. It is an HONOR to the band, the fans & everyone ever associated with KISS. One more down, hundreds more just as deserving to go.
I assume the Ace/Peter TMS show will be the last one of the season April 5th? That would be the weekend before the RRHOF ceremony.
These lackluster clowns get in, but Judas Priest is still ignored? THAT is the travesty here!!!! The fact we are getting a bunch of childish drama is absolutely not surprising. KISS doesn’t belong in a music HOF. Business? Yes. Music? Laughable.
Complete moron…without KISS Priest is still playing 7-11 openings
Really….Priest doesn’t make it without KISS…now who’s delusional! From a musical standpoint, Priest far exceeds KISS if you look at short periods and longevity. And KISS was not the only driving force is the mid to late seventies, you know banks like Sabbath, Zeppelin, Purple, UFO, Uriah Heep Maiden….maybe you’ve heard of them.
I agree a million percent with you on this statement, George.
Judas Priest rules, and anyone insinuating that the band would cease to exist without KISS paving the way, is just ludicrous. If that’s the case, then KISS would cease to exist without Alice Cooper and they all would cease exist without the Beatles and the Stones.
Next 😉
Dana from EddieTrunk.com 🙂
Bonus points Dana!
I just like to add that Alice Cooper had no problems whatsoever performing and inducting the original members of the Alice Cooper Band 😉
Gene & Paul still have a lot to learn…
Neither Alice Cooper nor Kiss had a say in who got inducted among their ranks. Gene and Paul never denied that Ace and Peter belong in the HOF with them, they just wanted some of the other later members to get in as well. Kiss just didn’t want to PERFORM with Ace and Peter.
Priest Blows! As does Rob Halford (not that there’s anything wrong with that)
As a die hard Priest fan, your comment might have offended me, if it actually mattered-LOL!!
Just kidding…maybe? 😉
Yeah….who gave judas priest an opening slot that opened the door for judas priest in america? Typical unappreciative douche
Lady GaGa will be inducting KISS at Barclays on 4/10/14.
God i am so tierd of this crap, im not a real insider but, my mom worked for Casablanca’s accounting firm in the 70 & 80’s, (she said OMG they spent money like it was pennies) she liked peter because the cat was cute, she said the nice guys were stupid, paul and gene were plesent but business, the other two were nicer, silly but the few time they came to to office they were drunk and wanted money, she said always calling wanting money. she remembers when peter left, the field guys were happy, they always had a rep on tour keeping track of expences and it was always the drunk guys causing unexpected expences, hotel damage, wrecking cars, pushing around and crew being late. she said they were not very respncible and while very nice she does not remember them ever doing anfthing at mettings but wanting there check so they could leave. Now i love the band, seen them 14 times, gotta tell you, they are better now, is there the same magic in the albums, no, but they are better live. saw ace a few years ago at the house of blues, painful. saw peter, not to good. they should be happy, should they all have played probably but, they are not there now adn quite frankly have no right to make demands, if KISS had stopped when they left (as they wanted) we would not be having this conversation. By the way, while ace was out of the band, he still recieved partnership checks of better than 4 million, he never made that money again until the reunion, ace did it for money not for fans or KISS, he got 25 million for the 5 years, he was set and wasnt gonna do it anymore, they only reason in the first place was because he was broke. Trunk is an idolizer, i like him, buy he supports ace and better because they give him audience and he keeps them in the spotlight, remember folks eddie needs ratings and this keeps him viable, its all business.
Very true on some things…namely the attitudes of Peter and Ace. One of my very good friends was on the road with Kiss during the heyday (Destroyer and Love Gun tours), he’s still in music production in Nashville today. He could tell you some stories for sure. In fact the first time I met the guys was with him…Gene and Paul must have talked for about an hour with him that day before soundcheck. Funniest story was having to roll Frehley out to the stage on a dolly night after night. As for the reunion tour Peter and Ace were both paid 2 million for the entire tour. Seemingly that wasn’t enough for Peter. Regardless by the time the tour was over Pete was back to his old ways…hold up in his hotel room complaining about the world…and of course Ace was drunk. I’ve never had any issue’s with why Peter and Ace weren’t in the band originally. They didn’t deserve to be…not to mention as Ed points out, the band wouldn’t have survived. I do believe they should have all…put egos aside and played a couple songs…no makeup, no production…just a few classic tunes. That doesn’t harm anything they are doing now…which quit frankly is winding down and it gives the fans…a thank you.
Ken & JB .
Do you two honestly think any of us here believe you bullshit ?
Seriously dude’s . Go back to being moderators on Kissonline . I think Gene just came out with another toy that needs to be put up….
Moderator? Lol. Look I’m totally po’d about this whole thing. Like I said above (which you failed to read) the very least they could have done is the original guys, no makeup , no production…just play some tunes for us. Everyone would have been fine with that. We put them where they are…they’ve always claimed to give the fans what they want will this is what we want. Put up or shut up. Frankly I don’t wanna see the original band back in makeup…no more than I want to see the band parading Tommy and Eric out there now. Kiss needs to call it a day….they are old. They aren’t the Stones or Aerosmith who’s reputations weren’t build on physical live performances. Paul can barely move much less sing. Same for Gene….it all should have ended on the Farewell Tour. I’ve not spent a dime on the band nor seen them live since…and refuse to do so. I’ve followed them for 36+ years, meet them numerous times as I worked in the business for 20 years (promoter) for one of the largest companies in the business. You may not like my opinion but I’m not full of crap but I’ll always be a fan. You can be a fan and disagree…it’s not black and white like many want to make it out to be. Even Ed pointed that out above. I don’t agree with Gene and Paul on this issue…no different than being disappointed in Ace and Peters actions for nearly destroying the band numerous times…again though…I’m still a fan of all of them, especially the original guys.
you are delusional on so many levels.
Right on, bro!
All of what you said Ken, has been corroborated in everyone’s autobiography, none of this is necessarily ‘secret’ information.
While Ace and Peter at the end were more than likely sticking it out for the money- however everyone seems to forget that they weren’t treated as equal partners from the get go. When these guys banded together 40 years ago Paul and Gene needed an ‘Ace and Peter’ to complete their band. Gene and Paul, if they felt that way, should’ve made it clear in 1973 that Ace and Peter were merely hired guns and would never have any say musically in the band or it’s direction. But they all went in together, one for all and all for one way back in that magical year of 1973. Who can really blame Ace and Peter for feeling shunned and unworthy when your ‘boss’ tells you your contributions blow?
While A&P behaved terribly over the years G&P tolerated it and put up with it. They could’ve easily culled A&P out after the first two years. G&P knew that they needed a little ‘bad boy persona’ in their ‘rock band’ and A&P provided it.
It is shameful that G&P use every opportunity to bash A&P yet in the heat of their popularity and problems in the ’70’s not Gene nor Paul ever said ‘Hey we should try and get Ace and Peter some help’ or threaten them that if they didn’t get help and clean up they’d be out of the band. This was NEVER mentioned by any KISS band member. I doubt it will be mentioned in Paul’s book either.
Seems to me Gene and Paul were enablers by tolerating this nonsense and letting it go on six or seven years and now all they can do is bitch about it.
Gene and Paul were always the leaders- to their credit they wanted things just right and a certain way- they were the perfectionists- but I can honestly say I don’t think Gene & Paul had great songwriting skills any more than Ace or Peter did.. In all of the autobiographies each member confirmed that Gene and Paul wore the pants and that Ace and Peter’s material contributions were never welcomed. Gene admitted that out right in his autobiography that they never liked or thought Ace and Peter’s contributions were worthwhile or their playing was very good. So again, why weren’t they replaced by 1975 or ’76?
To me the disco dud Calling Dr Love didn’t do much for Gene and Paul’s credibility as songwriters and contributors. Gene’s playing has never been great, nor is he even a good singer and he will fully admit this. Paul is probably the only one who was consistent talent wise. Ace was a helluva guitarist and Peter had a great, real voice. I never thought his drumming was bad either. It deteriorated over time, but when you have G&P telling you that you suck, what do they expect? Self fulfilling prophecy. ‘If we tell Peter he sucks, then he probably will’ says Paul to Gene.
So in my almighty defense of Peter and Ace, I can understand them being upset at being a part of a band, founding members no less, yet being told their every contribution music-wise or other ideas sucked.
Peter always had issues with them cutting his drum solos out- so if he did suck at playing why did Gene and Paul keep him so long and why was he invited back TWICE to tour?
If someone sucks at what they do, they usually get fired. Peter and Ace were booted out because of their personal booze and drug soaked issues- which contributed to bad playing, but again, Gene and Paul USED them both for years. Then had them back again, TWICE.
So who is the real antagonist in this arena??
So who are the REAL idiots here?
You typed lines and lines of unadulterated nothing.
Then don’t read it. Simple.
i agree – too much i think i me myself and i with this eddie trunk guy
Right, because it’s MY site and MY blog? Are you totally clueless on how this works?? Do you go to Kiss’s website to not read about Kiss? MY blog shouldn’t have MY take? Not to mention a ton of the site dedicated to rock news I have nothing to do with. Stunning you are confused why MY site has MY take, oh, and a TON of space for comments from YOU guys even if they are clueless like this one..