2/23: EDDIE’S TAKE ON KISS AND NO PERFORMANCE AT HALL.

Wanted to post earlier today but we had to actually upgrade our server because of all the activity on the site this weekend (thanks webmaster David for your help!). Now that Gene and Paul have weighed in on the HOF drama of the weekend we have a pretty clear picture on the eve of tickets going on sale that Kiss is not playing at all now in any form. Clearly they had to make some statement here after all the fallout from Ace on my radio show Friday night and Peter’s statement yesterday. So now that all sides have weighed in here is MY analysis of all of this for those interested as far as what has gone on.

Gene and Paul were never going to play with Ace and Peter at this event. Just wasn’t ever going to happen. Look no further than Paul’s official Twitter a few weeks ago when he essentially said as much. Ace, Peter, and MANY members of the HOF I spoke to over the last few weeks confirmed they wanted to play with the current band and had no intention of an originals reunion. The Kiss statement saying “we don’t believe the memory will be enhanced” in playing with Ace and Peter really translates to Gene and Paul not wanting to open a can of worms, and honestly likely not thinking they can cut it with them anymore. They know this can’t be a jump up and jam thing. They need to rehearse and prepare to do it right. That would require them reconnecting for a few days. That opens cans of worms so to speak. So they were never going to go down those roads with the original band. In their view too complicated and just like at MTV unplugged, it would make it very hard to continue to sell what they are now doing afterwards. Ace, Peter and the HOF didn’t just make it up that they didn’t want to play with them. Perhaps they would have allowed Ace and Peter to come up at the group jam at the end, but Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace alone on stage playing a song was something Gene and Paul were never going to allow or have happen. To them it’s complicated on way too many levels. So once Ace and Peter released their statements Gene & Paul’s only way out of the backlash was to check out of playing all together which they did today. And you know what? No matter how this was arrived at it is the best available scenario given they won’t play with the original band. Since the original four are being inducted out of respect no performance is better than Ace and Peter having to watch the current band. I think this also makes it likely (but far from 100%) that everyone at least shows up and speaks. So what we hopefully end up with is a photo op of the original guys, a few words from each, then some sort of all star Kiss tribute band or video package. The HOF will now have to figure that out. But I can tell you this is a victory of sorts for Ace and Peter who now may attend and will not feel dissed having to see personas they created playing at their induction. But it is clear, and I have confirmed with many over the last month involved with the HOF, that Gene and Paul would not play with only the original band at this event. The HOF wanted that, Ace and Peter were up for it (as Ace said on my show when first announced as going in) but Gene and Paul would not have it and wanted to play with the current band. Again, Paul said “very unlikely” over a month ago on Twitter when asked about a reunion and “no way” to them wearing makeup. So where this is all coming from should not be a surprise. It’s pretty clear and honestly it is Gene & Paul’s right at this point, even if you disagree strongly with it. They own Kiss like it or not. To me anything else is spin and damage control at this point. But again, to me, this is the second best scenario given only the originals are being inducted. At least it gets them all there hopefully!

A few other things; do Gene and Paul attend? They say in their statement they will “celebrate” the induction but that doesn’t always mean show up. I would assume they would, but none of the original four have clear cut said yet “we will be there”.

Clearly Gene and Paul are annoyed (and you can make the case rightfully so) that only the original four are being inducted. However their statement left out Vinnie Vincent (a HUGE contributor to Kiss comeback of the 80′s) and the late Mark St John. We all know Kiss and Vinnie had their issues, but if they truly wanted to celebrate KISStory completely Vinnie would certainly at least deserve an invite and mention? I have said all along I think it had to be only the original guys or EVERYONE who was in Kiss to do this right. Kind of hard to pick and choose. The HOF decided only originals. So when they said in their statement “the entire history”, they are still leaving out some gaps.

And that’s another issue. Kiss in their statement continue to allude to all the success they have had without Ace and Peter. Relatively speaking that is true. But you can not discount the fact that the bands biggest periods by far were with the original band. The 70′s were most iconic, then the 90′s reunion was equally huge. Who knows if Ace and Peter didn’t do the reunion tour in ’96 if there would even still be a Kiss today? Reunions happen because bands need them and they are much bigger than whatever that band is doing at the time. Nobody does a reunion tour because it means less people or interest. Current Kiss does very well in festivals and some parts of the world. But to say in America the band is as big as ever (as I have heard stated) is just false. The last full US tour was a CO HEADLINE. You don’t go 50/50 with another band unless you need the help. On the flipside it is without question true that Gene and Paul have kept this alive for 40 years and steered the ship (with good and bad decisions in my view), so without that commitment who knows what would have happened? There were several versions of Kiss. I was a fan of many. But the simple truth is nothing was or will be bigger than the original four guys. That is just fact if you really take in the history.

If the HOF had decided to induct all the members then for sure the case could be made that everyone plays. But they decided to induct the four that started it all only. It sucks for us fans that the powers that be here wouldn’t make that work for at least a song or two, but I think where we arrived at today with no performance is the second best scenario. Now let’s see if they all show, who does the induction (I know but can’t say!) and what the HOF does as a tribute. It’s been a wild weekend since Ace started this with his announcement on my radio show late this past Friday night (audio on the home page) and where we go from here should be interesting as well. I’ll be live on SiriusXM channel 39 6-10P ET tomorrow and will take your calls. That’s MY take, look forward to yours here on the site or on the radio.

Oh, one last thing. Much has been made about the impact all of this will have on sales to the event tomorrow. The timing here was key since MANY were going to come from around the world assuming a performance by the original band one last time. So clearly it’s great those people now know the deal. I think it will for sure change the dynamic of the crowd makeup in the building that night. But as long as the original four show up I’d say a good showing from Kiss fans will be there. But nothing like if it was a reunion performance. Also remember there are many other bands being honored that night. Nirvana and Springsteen also have pretty big bases. So I suspect ticket sales will be just fine when that is all factored in. I’m sure there will be much more to discuss. Never dull being a Kiss fan!

Comments

  1. Rockin' Ron Runyon says:

    I have pretty much the same history with KISS as you do, Eddie & many of the fans that grew up in our generation. I was an instant fan in the mid 70′s the first time I dropped the needle on Destroyer. For the rest of my life KISS has always been my favorite band even though there were plenty of ups & downs. I have also stood my ground with my opinion that they went too far when they put Eric & Tommy in the makeup. I understand why they did but I still believe it was disrespectful to not only Ace & Peter but the legacy of the original band. I don’t fault them for wanting to continue after the reunion but I also know they could have NEVER been anywhere near as successful after that. Their decision to continue with the “image” of the original band is probably the only reason they are still together & able to continue to tour but to myself & many of the original fans it was still the line in the sand. That being said this is not surprising to me at all but regardless of what happens at the ceremony, they are & always will be my favorite band because of the impact they have had on my life since that still very vivid memory of hearing those first chords of “Detroit Rock City”. At the end of it all I, as a fan am still celebrating the fact that KISS has finally been inducted & recognized for the impact they had on the history of music. It is an HONOR to the band, the fans & everyone ever associated with KISS. One more down, hundreds more just as deserving to go.

  2. I assume the Ace/Peter TMS show will be the last one of the season April 5th? That would be the weekend before the RRHOF ceremony.

  3. These lackluster clowns get in, but Judas Priest is still ignored? THAT is the travesty here!!!! The fact we are getting a bunch of childish drama is absolutely not surprising. KISS doesn’t belong in a music HOF. Business? Yes. Music? Laughable.

    • Bill Wilson says:

      Complete moron…without KISS Priest is still playing 7-11 openings

      • Really….Priest doesn’t make it without KISS…now who’s delusional! From a musical standpoint, Priest far exceeds KISS if you look at short periods and longevity. And KISS was not the only driving force is the mid to late seventies, you know banks like Sabbath, Zeppelin, Purple, UFO, Uriah Heep Maiden….maybe you’ve heard of them.

        • I agree a million percent with you on this statement, George.

          Judas Priest rules, and anyone insinuating that the band would cease to exist without KISS paving the way, is just ludicrous. If that’s the case, then KISS would cease to exist without Alice Cooper and they all would cease exist without the Beatles and the Stones.

          Next ;)

          Dana from EddieTrunk.com :)

          • Bonus points Dana!

            I just like to add that Alice Cooper had no problems whatsoever performing and inducting the original members of the Alice Cooper Band ;)

            Gene & Paul still have a lot to learn…

          • Neither Alice Cooper nor Kiss had a say in who got inducted among their ranks. Gene and Paul never denied that Ace and Peter belong in the HOF with them, they just wanted some of the other later members to get in as well. Kiss just didn’t want to PERFORM with Ace and Peter.

          • George St. Geegland says:

            Priest Blows! As does Rob Halford (not that there’s anything wrong with that)

          • As a die hard Priest fan, your comment might have offended me, if it actually mattered-LOL!!

            Just kidding…maybe? ;)

    • Yeah….who gave judas priest an opening slot that opened the door for judas priest in america? Typical unappreciative douche

  4. Lady GaGa will be inducting KISS at Barclays on 4/10/14.

  5. ken williams says:

    God i am so tierd of this crap, im not a real insider but, my mom worked for Casablanca’s accounting firm in the 70 & 80′s, (she said OMG they spent money like it was pennies) she liked peter because the cat was cute, she said the nice guys were stupid, paul and gene were plesent but business, the other two were nicer, silly but the few time they came to to office they were drunk and wanted money, she said always calling wanting money. she remembers when peter left, the field guys were happy, they always had a rep on tour keeping track of expences and it was always the drunk guys causing unexpected expences, hotel damage, wrecking cars, pushing around and crew being late. she said they were not very respncible and while very nice she does not remember them ever doing anfthing at mettings but wanting there check so they could leave. Now i love the band, seen them 14 times, gotta tell you, they are better now, is there the same magic in the albums, no, but they are better live. saw ace a few years ago at the house of blues, painful. saw peter, not to good. they should be happy, should they all have played probably but, they are not there now adn quite frankly have no right to make demands, if KISS had stopped when they left (as they wanted) we would not be having this conversation. By the way, while ace was out of the band, he still recieved partnership checks of better than 4 million, he never made that money again until the reunion, ace did it for money not for fans or KISS, he got 25 million for the 5 years, he was set and wasnt gonna do it anymore, they only reason in the first place was because he was broke. Trunk is an idolizer, i like him, buy he supports ace and better because they give him audience and he keeps them in the spotlight, remember folks eddie needs ratings and this keeps him viable, its all business.

    • Very true on some things…namely the attitudes of Peter and Ace. One of my very good friends was on the road with Kiss during the heyday (Destroyer and Love Gun tours), he’s still in music production in Nashville today. He could tell you some stories for sure. In fact the first time I met the guys was with him…Gene and Paul must have talked for about an hour with him that day before soundcheck. Funniest story was having to roll Frehley out to the stage on a dolly night after night. As for the reunion tour Peter and Ace were both paid 2 million for the entire tour. Seemingly that wasn’t enough for Peter. Regardless by the time the tour was over Pete was back to his old ways…hold up in his hotel room complaining about the world…and of course Ace was drunk. I’ve never had any issue’s with why Peter and Ace weren’t in the band originally. They didn’t deserve to be…not to mention as Ed points out, the band wouldn’t have survived. I do believe they should have all…put egos aside and played a couple songs…no makeup, no production…just a few classic tunes. That doesn’t harm anything they are doing now…which quit frankly is winding down and it gives the fans…a thank you.

      • Ken & JB .
        Do you two honestly think any of us here believe you bullshit ?
        Seriously dude’s . Go back to being moderators on Kissonline . I think Gene just came out with another toy that needs to be put up….

        • Moderator? Lol. Look I’m totally po’d about this whole thing. Like I said above (which you failed to read) the very least they could have done is the original guys, no makeup , no production…just play some tunes for us. Everyone would have been fine with that. We put them where they are…they’ve always claimed to give the fans what they want will this is what we want. Put up or shut up. Frankly I don’t wanna see the original band back in makeup…no more than I want to see the band parading Tommy and Eric out there now. Kiss needs to call it a day….they are old. They aren’t the Stones or Aerosmith who’s reputations weren’t build on physical live performances. Paul can barely move much less sing. Same for Gene….it all should have ended on the Farewell Tour. I’ve not spent a dime on the band nor seen them live since…and refuse to do so. I’ve followed them for 36+ years, meet them numerous times as I worked in the business for 20 years (promoter) for one of the largest companies in the business. You may not like my opinion but I’m not full of crap but I’ll always be a fan. You can be a fan and disagree…it’s not black and white like many want to make it out to be. Even Ed pointed that out above. I don’t agree with Gene and Paul on this issue…no different than being disappointed in Ace and Peters actions for nearly destroying the band numerous times…again though…I’m still a fan of all of them, especially the original guys.

    • you are delusional on so many levels.

    • FreakAzoid says:

      Right on, bro!

    • All of what you said Ken, has been corroborated in everyone’s autobiography, none of this is necessarily ‘secret’ information.

      While Ace and Peter at the end were more than likely sticking it out for the money- however everyone seems to forget that they weren’t treated as equal partners from the get go. When these guys banded together 40 years ago Paul and Gene needed an ‘Ace and Peter’ to complete their band. Gene and Paul, if they felt that way, should’ve made it clear in 1973 that Ace and Peter were merely hired guns and would never have any say musically in the band or it’s direction. But they all went in together, one for all and all for one way back in that magical year of 1973. Who can really blame Ace and Peter for feeling shunned and unworthy when your ‘boss’ tells you your contributions blow?

      While A&P behaved terribly over the years G&P tolerated it and put up with it. They could’ve easily culled A&P out after the first two years. G&P knew that they needed a little ‘bad boy persona’ in their ‘rock band’ and A&P provided it.

      It is shameful that G&P use every opportunity to bash A&P yet in the heat of their popularity and problems in the ’70′s not Gene nor Paul ever said ‘Hey we should try and get Ace and Peter some help’ or threaten them that if they didn’t get help and clean up they’d be out of the band. This was NEVER mentioned by any KISS band member. I doubt it will be mentioned in Paul’s book either.

      Seems to me Gene and Paul were enablers by tolerating this nonsense and letting it go on six or seven years and now all they can do is bitch about it.

      Gene and Paul were always the leaders- to their credit they wanted things just right and a certain way- they were the perfectionists- but I can honestly say I don’t think Gene & Paul had great songwriting skills any more than Ace or Peter did.. In all of the autobiographies each member confirmed that Gene and Paul wore the pants and that Ace and Peter’s material contributions were never welcomed. Gene admitted that out right in his autobiography that they never liked or thought Ace and Peter’s contributions were worthwhile or their playing was very good. So again, why weren’t they replaced by 1975 or ’76?

      To me the disco dud Calling Dr Love didn’t do much for Gene and Paul’s credibility as songwriters and contributors. Gene’s playing has never been great, nor is he even a good singer and he will fully admit this. Paul is probably the only one who was consistent talent wise. Ace was a helluva guitarist and Peter had a great, real voice. I never thought his drumming was bad either. It deteriorated over time, but when you have G&P telling you that you suck, what do they expect? Self fulfilling prophecy. ‘If we tell Peter he sucks, then he probably will’ says Paul to Gene.

      So in my almighty defense of Peter and Ace, I can understand them being upset at being a part of a band, founding members no less, yet being told their every contribution music-wise or other ideas sucked.

      Peter always had issues with them cutting his drum solos out- so if he did suck at playing why did Gene and Paul keep him so long and why was he invited back TWICE to tour?

      If someone sucks at what they do, they usually get fired. Peter and Ace were booted out because of their personal booze and drug soaked issues- which contributed to bad playing, but again, Gene and Paul USED them both for years. Then had them back again, TWICE.

      So who is the real antagonist in this arena??

      So who are the REAL idiots here?

    • i agree – too much i think i me myself and i with this eddie trunk guy

      • Right, because it’s MY site and MY blog? Are you totally clueless on how this works?? Do you go to Kiss’s website to not read about Kiss? MY blog shouldn’t have MY take? Not to mention a ton of the site dedicated to rock news I have nothing to do with. Stunning you are confused why MY site has MY take, oh, and a TON of space for comments from YOU guys even if they are clueless like this one..

  6. Thank you for pointing out that the biggest periods of the band’s career were with the originals. This needs to be pointed out to G&P. I would be less unhappy if they could at least acknowledge that, and be able to celebrate those times. They fail to recognize that A&P helped rebuild their careers and make the current licensing juggernaut possible post-Reunion.

    • The reunion tour was the biggest in terms of concert grosses, but to write off the in-between non-makeup years as a failure is wrong. Kiss were pretty darn high profile throughout the 80′s. No, they weren’t as big as Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Poison, Van Halen, or AC/DC (they were definitely bigger than Aerosmith until their ’87 comeback though), but they were always there in the mix, always doing respectable album sales and concert business.

  7. Honestly, if you listen to any of the KISS concerts from the last 2 years, it is obvious that Paul can not sing live anymore. My prediction is that KISS will end after the 40th Anniversary Tour. I saw every tour from 86 up until the tour before Monster. The ticket prices are way too high to see a substandard show. Paul and Gene had an opportunity to put their egos and personal feelings aside for one night to celebrate the glory years of the band and decided to use this weak “everyone should be inducted” excuse to deprive the fans of seeing the original members play together one last time. I will never spend another dollar on KISS again. I blame Paul for this decision, as I don’t see Gene really caring about playing with Ace and Peter. Paul has turned into a real diva the last few years. Karma got you Paul as your voice is shot, but Peter and Ace can still sing as well as they always have.

    • George St. Geegland says:

      Lol Peter can still sing.? Ohhhh yes, you’re right….as I listen to All for One. Undoubtedly the most horrific album ever made.

      • Always thought Peter had a decent, real, smoky sort of voice, however sucky material could make anyone sound bad.

        • George St. Geegland says:

          It wasn’t the material. Listen to some samples on I-tunes. The military should have cranked that album for the detainees at Gitmo. The intel would have floooowed.

  8. KISS WHO! I THOUGHT THEY BROKE UP THIRTY YEARS AGO!! MONEY GRUBBERS!!

  9. This induction had “UGLY” written on it from the very beginning. Being a huge Van Halen fan and remembering their failed induction I see this as being an equal failure. It’s a bummer for everyone involved to have something so good go so bad. I agree 100% that their inductions took way tooooo long.

  10. Seriously, Paul has issues. I think Gene was the only one saying from the current KISS camp saying he would do a reunion. So all the reunion hate must be from Paul. What is his issue??? Life can twist our best decisions. So he wanted KISS to be without Ace and Peter. Fans kinda want Ace and Peter at least one last time in KISS. Let A and P play. What’s the big deal. Your way isn’t going over well, so just let it be and do what fans want. Don’t take it personal.

    I am amazed that Gene projects this super macho god of thunder thing but let’s Paul run things like this. From what he said, I assume Gene would be down for a reunion HOF performance. So the bad stuff must be from Paul. What does Paul have over Gene that Paul gets to run the show ???

  11. God forbid something happens to ACE or Peter ( who already had a scare ) in the near future? Would Gene or Paul actually regret this shit? The HOF basically has thought KISS was a joke. They finally accept them in and that’s exactly how they behave. The four original guys were inducted. Paul and Gene couldn’t control this so they act like spoiled children. The four original guys busted their balls TOGETHER, made the world take notice TOGETHER, built a fan base 40 years strong TOGETHER. If they fizzled out in the ’80s they would still probably be in the HOF based on the four original guys. Everything else in KISStory is just icing on the cake, let’s face it. Sure Gene and Paul deserve the credit for keeping the band around as long as they have but, if it wasn’t for the original band, there would be no band to keep around. How could they be so smart yet seem to not realize that this would happen? The vile things being said about them? How uncomfortable Eric and Tommy must feel now? The potential lashing out at Paul’s book signings. When all they had to do was make it clear it would be two or three songs….put a killer clip package together featuring EVERYONE else who has contributed to the band and thank every FAN for their loyalty, and go back to doing what everyone was doing the day before. I understand about not wanting to upset what “they are pushing now”, but at this point I really don’t think this would have affected it that much. Based on the backlash so far I think they have to be at least second guessing those two scenarios. Also….when they first started this re creation of classic kiss they said they weren’t trying to fool anyone and made it a point that people knew it was Eric and Tommy. O.K. Then…it shouldn’t affect people seeing ACE and Peter again for one night. All the diehards understand what is happening and the newbies can carry on as they are, accepting the “new version”. Wouldn’t this have generated maybe new interest in their old catalogue also? What you say?…..the current band also generates interest in the old catalogue? Yeah..and when they go buy it, they will find ACE FREHLEY and PETER CRISS on it !!! Not the “spaceman” and “catman”. My god this is laughable all around.

    • I’d like to add…..INFLUENCE has always seemed to be cited as the main criteria in bands being inducted, which is why it was laughable why KISS was ignored for so long. Sure, KISS influenced many a stage show BUT, KISS also has influenced many musicians MUSICALLY. The fact CANNOT be ignored that Peter and ACE especially, were instrumental in that. Say what you want about Eric and Tommy as musicians, but does anyone with a sane mind think either one of them influenced anywhere near as many? The comparison in the body of work between ACE and Tommy in particular is laughable. I don’t care how long Tommy has been with them or the handful of songs ACE wasn’t actually on. Compare THE BODIES OF WORK. For gods sake, Tommy (aside from the last few releases) has merely been COPYING the work of ACE FREHLEY! Is there any doubt which of those two guitarists should be in the hall of fame under that criteria?

    • I agree Steve. I think Peter was crushed that as philanthropic as Gene is, that he never said shit about Peter’s cancer or never donated a dime to some of the cancer walks he’s participated in. It would’ve been GREAT, positive publicity for Simmons and KISS on a whole had Gene spoken up and out about Peter’s battle.

      Also agree that Eric and Tommy must be feeling like crap about this- the old fans hating on Eric and Tommy, the new fans hating on Peter and Ace. Gene playing the ringleader and posting all the vicious tweets and gloating about it.

      Gene is behaving like a bully in a schoolyard.

      • pete lytel says:

        “Gene playing the ringleader and posting all these vicious tweets and gloating about it” behaving like a bully in a schoolyard. Dude!! You must live in Colorado! What are you smoking? What vicious tweets? What bullying? Gene has hardly said a word, except for in the beginning and he was very gracious. I would hardly say Pauls tweets were vicious. Go back to smoking weed in your moms basement. Ridiculous.

        • If you read Gene’s twitter feed, he retweets tons of negative tweets about Ace and Peter. Yes he is gloating about it. Posting them alone, is showing his nod of approval.

          Paul posts vicious tweets to people who call him out. For two men 60 something years old, they’re behaving like they’re back in high school.

          Why are you referring to me as a ‘dude’? Are you 15 years old?

          You, who or whatever you are, need to crawl back under your rock.

    • George St. Geegland says:

      Ace looks like he’s been dead for years.

  12. Why can’t Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace come out to play, in make-up or not, one song and then bring the remaining subsequent members on stage after that? Pay homage to the original band as they created the rocket ride (pun intended) we know as KISS, then move on to allow homage to be payed to the band as a whole. I have been a very big fan of KISS for as long as I can remember. What I know is that there would be no KISS without Ace Frehley and Peter Criss. They are both “founding” members of the band. They both also created the stage personas they used on stage. There would be no Space Ace without Ace Frehley and there would be no Catman without Peter Criss. In my humble opinion Gene and Paul realize that Kiss without the original make up does not sell as well. That is why the current line up uses Space Ace and Catman instead of the Fox or whatever other characters did not quell the audience’s thirst for the show that KISS is so famous for providing. Gene and Paul brought Ace and Peter back into the band in the 90s because their unplugged performance showed them that it would propel them back into the forefront of rock and roll and that it would make them much more money than they already had. The subsequent band members know how important Ace and Peter were to the band and I am sure it would not hurt even one of their feelings if the four original members played a single song without them first.

  13. FreakAzoid says:

    All this crap about “the original four” “the original guys” “the original guys” bla bla bla….. THEY HATE EACH OTHER, LIVE WITH IT!! People get divorced, couples break up, friends become estranged from each other. That´s life. Gene & Paul have moved on while Ace & Peter can only drag their sorry asses to the one guy that, still, blindly listens to all the crap they say.

    Fanboys suck!

    • It’s an award numbnut. No one is saying they have to be friends again. Blame the HOF for wanting “the original four”. That’s who wanted them to perform together. And even divorced people will show up and be civil at a child’s wedding and act like adults for a fuckin’ hour. And ACE and Peters “sorry asses” as you put it, don’t even want back in. They HAVE moved on. Again…it’s a fuckin’ award show and it’s being offered to the four who started the band. What don’t you get about that.

  14. My two cents on all this: Gene and Paul decided to pull the plug because of, as Eddie also mentioned, the implications a reunion performance might have.
    As we all could see during the Unplugged gig, the audience booed Bruce and Eric when they came back on stage. I guess Gene and Paul feared the same would happen if they played with Fake Ace and Eric. So they spoil the fun for everybody.

  15. Paul and Gene could be called greedy, but who wouldn’t want to make the most of a brand that continue to sell…year after year? Who says no to “easy money”, filling up your bankaccount, but those money is also the result of the hard work they layed down in the 70′s. Ace and Peter were important bandmembers back then, but what if Paul and Gene were like them? Would there be a Kiss after 78? Would we in 2014 go “Remember that band back in the 70′s with the make up…what was their name again”? Ace and Peter are still loved by the fans, but Paul and Gene have not only kept the band alive, they have kept the memory of Ace and Peter alive as Kiss Legends. Do I agree it’s ok dressing up Thayer and Singer as Ace and Peter? No! Do I care? I used to, but I’m just happy having one of my favorite bands around for a younger generation to experience. And to be honest: Thayer and Singer make Kiss sound great live. I don’t care much for the HOF. It’s a joke. Some fans think it’s a big deal. Why not show up, guys, and do ONE song on stage, unplugged? Have some superstars do 1-3 covers. There are other bands/artists that night as well and I’m sure it will be fun :-)

  16. TheSpinGuru says:

    Gene and Paul have ignored what their fans have wanted going on 30 years now. The biggest mistake Ace and Peter made was not holding the reunion tour hostage 10 minutes before they were supposed to go on at Tiger Stadium. Gene in a money grubbing bastard and they only way to get to him is through his money. It was ridiculous that the Reunion Tour was not a four-way split and that Ace and Peter were hired hands. It could not have gone on without them, and Ace and Peter should have shoved in their faces stating “no 25% each, we don’t go on!”. Gene and Paul have disrespected everybody else who has played in the band. They have no consideration for their fans. They took a crap on what their fans wanted back in 1979, and they have not looked back since.

    • Yeah. They should have played hardball! That’s the ticket! Hindsight is 20/20, and you should change your screen name to Monday Morning Quarterback. They could have held out at Tiger Stadium…and would have been in breach of contract, and would have achieved NOTHING.

      Let me clear up a few things…Ace and Peter weren’t playing for charity. They were playing for money.

      1. Peter left, or was fired. He took the cash at the time. And, yes he signed over the rights to the make up. He could have kept his rights to the make up, but he didn’t. Why? He wanted cash! By the way, Peter could have left after the Reunion, too. But, he didn’t. Why? He wanted the CASH!
      2. Ace left. He signed the deal and took the cash. Ace came back and signed the deal.
      3. Don’t you remember Peter complaining when he found out Ace was paid more? If you don’t recall you can read it in his book.
      4. Since you mention 1979, how Gene & Paul “took a crap” on the fans…Where was Peter for Dynasty and Unmasked? He was so drugged up and drunk that he couldn’t make it to the recording sessions. I don’t understand why anyone would stand up for him in any of this. It’s not like he apologized to us, the fans, in his book. He goes even farther…He refers to Ace as lazy and a chronic masterbator. He outs him as bisexual. Is that okay with you??? He strongly implies that Paul is gay. Why? Because he won’t go out drinking with Peter. Oh, and Gene smells and is controlling. What a loser.

      Why are Gene and Paul the greedy bastards in all of this? Ace & Peter took the cash. Nobody made them do it. They have free will, which they exercised in drugs, drink and loads of other bad choices. Those were their CHOICES to make.

      Explain to me, why is it Gene & Paul’s responsibility to make right for the mistakes that Peter and Ace have made? Again? Why would they want to raise expectations that their might be another reunion? They don’t. It has nothing to do with Bruce & Eric being booed at Unplugged. That is spin. Nothing more.

      • George St. Geegland says:

        Great post, John!

      • Yep…great post. As much as I’m dismayed over the RRHOF fiasco, as much as I feel Gene and Paul should have checked their egos, even swallowed their own bile for one night…not for Peter or Ace but for the fans, I agree totally with what you are saying.

        Just so many chances these guys have had to participate and it always comes down to money. Peter and Ace had free reign to say whatever they wanted for the upcoming documentary but again, $$$ got in the way.

      • One other thing people need to know about the Reunion tour…Peter and Ace were guaranteed 2 mill apiece. They didn’t incur any production costs, travel expenses, hall rental, insurance costs, crew salaries, on and on etc… Tours aren’t free and once all the bills were paid, then Gene and Paul made their nut. Further…and many won’t believe this (perhaps Ed will confirm) most promoters were not willing to give Kiss the guarantee’s they were asking. As they believed the band dead makeup or not…afterall the Revenge tours plug was pulled. Nearly every large promoter in this country said…no thank you, we’re not going to pay you that. So what Gene and Paul did was risk everything and agreed with all the promoters to do a 90/10 split…meaning in laymans terms if the band sold 90% of the door the promoter would get 10% of the take. If they didn’t sell 90%, the band made only 10%. That’s a very dangerous contract…one that could have bankrupted Gene and Paul had the tour not gone gangbusters. A lot of legendary promoters thought the band would fail, they simply underestimated what the makeup meant and Kiss took them to the cleaners. Regardless of all this…Pete and Ace were guaranteed 2 mill whether the tour was a success of failure. So from playing small dives and no contracts and certainly very little money…Ace and Pete went from the poor house to the rich house in a matter of a few months. Musta been tough on them counting all that dough.

      • FreakAzoid says:

        The most insightful post I have read so far; congratulations.

        However, fanboys will be fanboys. They prefer to be living in a bubble and not face the cold reality of two money-hungry LOSERS that still milk the KISS titties after 30+ years.

        Pathetic.

      • Wow John . Sounds like you were there during all the contract negotiations. Thats awesome ! Can you clue us in on more ?
        This is all about the Makeup Kiss being inducted into the HOF not about a potential reunion tour or the mistakes Peter and Ace may or may not have made.

        $immons & $tanley should thank their lucky stars every night for Ace & Peter even trying out for the band in 72 ( because without the formula and dynamic that those 4 created, the only ones that would have been successful musicians solo would have been Paul and Ace ……
        $tanley & $immons should also thank their lucky stars thats Ace & Peter came in back in 96 to help sell arena’s again and setting the stage up for even being able to put the makeup on other guys…. If $immions and $tanley ever tried that without Ace & Pete initially , they would have been a laughing stock ……….. Even though they became one’s anyway now by musicians, former fans and , the industry.
        If it wasn’t for Pete & Ace in 96 the other two ass clowns would be playing theaters now just like Ace. Thats a fact/

  17. Eddie
    Here’s what stood out the most on $tanleys comments :

    “The only people who would complain, I think, are people who don’t really follow the band at this point.

    “The myth that sometimes surrounds the original lineup is purely myth. Some of it was of our own doing. The whole projecting the idea that it was four guys giving equally. Quite honestly, it was kind of our take on THE BEATLES: four guys that spend all their time together and run down the street jumping up in the air. But it’s not a reality. And maybe part of the problem was that some of the guys in the band really bought into believing it.

    “The band always had two people who were leading it and the idea that anybody is entitled to having songs on an album is crazy.”

    “The only people that complain are the ones that dont follow the band anymore” ???????
    Thats because you’ve insulted so many of the old Kiss army they’ve said ” screw you ” But, you dont care . We realize you couldn’t work with Ace & Pete anymore in 2000 but ya didn’t have to dress up the other guys and insult them and all the fans that made you !!

    The 2nd thing he states that I find very insulting is $tanleys statement : “and the idea that anybody is entitled to having songs on an album is crazy.”
    Are you serious Paul ????????
    Eddie. Can you believe this statement from Paul ? Am I reading it wrong ?? Thoughts ?

  18. I met Peter in 1994 in a club in Augsburg, Germany during one of his solo tours. He summed it up back then as it is today – “Its not Kiss anymore, its the Gene and Paul band.”

  19. PS…..Get Frank Marino on TMS!!!!

  20. I thought I heard in the news today that the Secretary of Defense will scall back the KISS Army to pre-WWII levels.

  21. Gotta give Skynyrd credit at least they invited everybody and let them play and made it a party which its supposed to be

  22. What a bloody nightmare.

  23. It is so sad that these grown men cannot work this out! Let’s face it, they aren’t getting any younger and before you know it, one of the original four will pass away. I am sure when this happens the remaining members will regret all of this petty bullshit!!!

  24. This just in … Daryl Hall has decided that he will not reunite with John Oates at the ceremony either. Daryl is insisting on playing only with his current touring sidekick Don Boats. Prior to joining Daryl, Don had performed in the Hall and Oates tribute band – Ball and Boats. Daryl is insisting that the only one wearing the mustache that night is Don. John had previously commented “you can’t have two of me up there in the same mustache, it just wouldn’t be right”. Lets just hope they play “Kiss on my List”.

  25. Fuck Gene and Paul and anyone who thinks that they are doing what’s right. Yeah Ace and Peter fucked up constantly but who do you think the true KISS fans care about more? I’m so sick of that arrogant pig Simmons and He-she Stanley I could puke! KISS’ biggest days were with Ace and Peter, NO ONE can deny that. I’ve been a fan since I was 7 years old, and what G&P have turned what was my favorite band into is a bigger joke than the R&RHOF. Money and control that’s all it’s meant to G&P, and they shit all over Ace and Peter when it came to money and the music. Remember whose solo album sold the most of the four? Ace’! Who had the only number one song in the entire history of the band? Peter! For those of you who are fans of the two hired whores, I hope you keep throwing your money at the KISS tribute band, cuz Gene and RuPaul would rather shit on you like they did to Ace and Peter, than give you your money’s worth! Like Bill Wilson said, Judas Priest not in, Iron Maiden not in, Deep Purple not in? Yet those two fucks Gene and Paul act like their above it all? What a joke, you two can KISS MY ASS! Much love Ace and Peter, and Eddie keep on Keepin on Brother! Up the Irons metalheads \m/

    • I am a true Kiss fan.
      They have been the biggest thing in my life.
      And I love all Kiss members.
      The only thing that makes me puke are your comments.

    • FreakAzoid says:

      Wow! Insults and gay slurs; what a way to make your point valid.

      Tell me: how does it feel to be living at your mother´s basement?

  26. In response to John, above: You have made some assertions that are not the case, particularly with regard to Peter and why he didn’t play on (most of) Dynasty and Unmasked. Peter wasn’t really able to play on Dynasty because of problems he had after car crash. He was not physically able to do it, although he did perform on his particular track. Unmasked was a different story; he had left the band by that point and went in to record his ‘Out of Control’ record.

    As for the rest…yes, Ace and Peter DID sign the offers they received from Gene and Paul to leave, and then come back. But both admitted they had managerial and legal representation that was less than stellar, and it resulted in less-than-equitable arrangements. And, it’s entirely possible they didn’t get their proper pieces of “ancillary revenues” from the merchandising, as was agreed to. Peter in particular outlined some of this in his book. So, not everything was done fairly, which was the fault of all concerned. Gene and Paul could have saved themselves a LOT of grief if they’d been more fair with the revenue, and not treated Ace and Peter like lackeys.

    In general, not enough emphasis is placed on Gene and Paul’s own mistakes, and the fact they have had control/ego issues of their own, magnified over the many years with self-aggrandizement and egomania. The fact remains that the biggest periods in the band’s history are with the OG 4 and in particular, the current post-reunion licensing/merchandizing juggernaut could not have been possible had Ace & Peter not returned, and the four iconic images reconstituted. In short, there would not be any “Hello KISSy” plush dolls with the barefaced mugs of the non-makeup KISS. Gene and Paul do deserve credit for leveraging the image into a global Brand, and making shrewd deals to line their pockets, but NONE of it happens without the Reunion.

    • George St. Geegland says:

      Wow, apparently Ace knows all about Kiss. He must have been there when it all happened.

    • Ace, in regards to representation of Ace & Peter….they hired those lawyers, and didn’t have to take their advice. That’s my problem with a lot of that argument. Still their decision.

      Nobody questions their contribution to the beginnings of the band. I think we all get it. But, a long history of bad decision making is the root of their problem. Could Gene &Paul handle things differently? Absolutely. But, Ace and Peter left and took the cash…if they stayed, as CK Lendt suggested Ace should have its a whole different game. I’m not sure why it is Gene & Pauls’s responsibility to continue to bear the brunt of their bad decisions. Again, both could have stayed after the reunion. Only Peter did briefly.

      They are all big boys…

      • So the lawyer says…hey Ace and Pete, if you sell your likeness i.e makeup to the band it’ll be a wonderful business decision. Now, what lawyer in their right mind would recommend that…further what person in their right mind would agree to it. Clearly either the lawyer or the parties agreeing aren’t dealing with a full deck.

  27. George St. Geegland says:

    With all you people bitching and whining about this issue, you’re empowering the RARHOF and giving it credibility. Hmmmm I vaguely remember people saying it’s such a sham and a joke. If it is such a sham and a joke, why should anyone care who performs and who doesn’t? And I don’t want to hear, “well, it’s the only thing out there..blah blah”. Trunk, you and all these other overly- opinionated know-it-alls just gave this ridiculous elitist organization credibility. Bravo!!

    • George
      As much as you try. Nobody on here cares what you think and nobody is going to engage with you. You should go see if you can get some attention from your wife? kid ? mom ? dad ? friend ? LOL

    • The rock and roll hall of shame can kiss my ass.
      I started my own rock club and inducted Kiss 30 years ago!

  28. Paul David says:

    I’ve been a KISS fan since “Alive!” and this is just another in the many peaks and valleys of KISS. Although the last peak was the 1996 “Reunion Tour.” I for one did not want to see them trudge through “Rock and Roll all Nite” again. I’m actually looking more forward to what they say at the podium. I hope they all show up and speak. Although Paul and Gene will probably insist on a 40/40/10/10 percent split on the time permitted to speak. Somewhat ironic in that Peter sang and cowrote their biggest single, and Ace did the best KISS solo album.

  29. Marty Connelly says:

    Eddie, your comments make a lot of sense. Gene and Paul performing with Ace and Peter would do nothing to help the current version of KISS which obviously they are trying to push on everyone. As much as I would have loved to see the original 4 play one more time, I guess that was just wishful thinking. I really hope the original 4 will appear at the induction. The original KISS I realize is a thing of the past but I really hope that at least for a few minutes, they can share the stage and give the fans an opportunity to celebrate this event.

  30. David Pratt says:

    They can just kiss my big old hairy ass what a bunch of babys

  31. This is a message to Ace Frehley……Ace you must attend the induction to the RRHOF…..you have influenced so many people to pick up a guitar and play and thats a fantastic thing…..its your induction too so stand proud and get the accolades you deserve…forget the Haters…..whether people like it or not you will go down as one of the great rock,n,roll guitarists……as a fan i,d love to see you there but most importantly do it for yourself too…YOU DESERVE IT !!!!

  32. The more Gene keeps retweeting remarks in poor taste regarding Ace and Peter- and many twitter comments are:

    ‘Ace and Peter f*cked up, thats why they’re not invited to play’

    ‘Don’t play with drunks, Gene and Paul did the right thing’

    ‘Great decision Gene and Paul. Ace & Peter blew their chances’

    Gene is doing a great job alienating ‘old time’ fans with his shenanigans.

    Long term fans spend their money on KISS too, but he will lose money with his current attitude.

    The RRHOF jam session was supposed to be the original four. Gene and Paul or Paul rather, just wasn’t feeling it, which I guess is their prerogative. However Gene and Paul both alluded early on after the RRHOF announcements that they were fine playing with A&P.

    So what happened over the last six weeks? Anyways it’s shitty of Gene to keep posting stupid comments by 17 year old ‘fans’ and to continue leading others to believe that they won’t play with Ace and Peter because they’re losers. Gene is wrong to perpetuate that, whether he feels it’s true or not and he should step up, class up and grow up.

    Ace and Peter didn’t ‘blow their chances’. They will be INDUCTED just like Gene and Paul.

  33. You are all craping on about who’s fault it is and who is better but it is just so pointless.
    I love the originals for starting the band and the currant line up for continuing.
    The REAL problem is the rock and roll hall of shame.
    How many non rockers are in this stupid thing.?
    And why has it taken so long to get Kiss in?
    Kiss don’t need some fake induction to a crap club to be classed as Gods.
    I can’t believe you people think this induction means anything at all.
    Have you all forgotten how you got into Kiss in the first place?
    Or was it because people that don’t matter decided that Kiss was cool?

  34. In the end when all this has been carefully thought out, I believe the 4 original KISS members will perform at HOF. But not in make-up. I just don’t see the make-up happening. Although it would be cool if it did. I do not think that Gene & Paul would pass up their glorious chance to play.

  35. Lame! But not the lamest induction to the weak rnr HOF. No Van Halens played when Van Halen was inducted? I believe Axl went AWOL. I think a lot of it is fear and insecurity of having to play with and for the ‘best’ musicians of RnR history. I say no play, no hall of fame! It should be about the music not the make up, the antics etc. Sadly many of our rock heroes are a bunch of divas. Is Michael Schenker in yet? RNRHOF is a joke anyway.

  36. Eddie, seeing as you’re quite friendly with Ace and Peter and given the current situation, why not see if you can organize some sort of club show within the same week as the Hall Of Fame Induction, where Ace and Peter can play a set with a bunch of the musicians they’ve influenced over the years, perhaps even Bruce Kulick could be involved along with a few other former KISS people such as Jean Beauvoir, Anton Fig, Mitch Weissman, Robben Ford, Rick Derringer, Bob Kulick, etc. It could be a proper celebration of the band that formed 40 years ago, unlike the 40th anniversary tour which will really be the same “tribute band” show they’ve been pushing since 2002. Maybe Vinnie Vincent could even be convinced to make an appearance of some kind. Imagine the set list that group could put together, mostly focusing on the 70′s, with a few songs from the non make up era. It would certainly be better than any performance with Fake Ace and Fake Peter. They could even do proper tributes to Eric Carr and Mark St. John. It may not happen at the actual Induction ceremony, but it’d be the next best thing and if anyone could potentially make it happen, it’s you.
    As far as this whole issue about who’s going in, I’m happy that it’s only the originals but it would have been nice to see Eric Carr, Vinnie Vincent, Mark St. John, Bruce Kulick and Eric Singer also go in. I realize that that would be everyone but Tommy Thayer, and I did leave him out intentionally because unlike Eric Singer who was in the band during the non make up era and was able to forge his own identity in the band (even though now he’s reduced to being the Fake Peter), Tommy has never been a legitimate member of the band, at least not in the same sense. He may have written a couple of filler songs over the years and done some session work, but that doesn’t make him important enough to deserve such an honour. He’s just the Fake Ace.

  37. Julien Caesar says:

    Petition to have all the members of KISS inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame.
    ********************************************************
    Calling all members of the KISS Army. Disappointed in the recent announcement that KISS will not perform at the R&R Ceremonies? Want all members of KISS,past and present to be inducted? Want them all to perform? Want your voice to be heard? Well let’s let them know how we feel. Let’s get the R&R Hall of Fame to acknowledge all of them. Get some of the members to put there differences aside one last time, forget their egos and perform a few songs to celebrate this historic occasion. If they don’t, agree to induct all members let’s encourage the present members to invite the past members on stage to share in the acceptance…” They all deserve to be recognized, the KISS Army won’t have it any other way!!!!

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/861/398/126/we-want-the-original-kiss-line-up-to-play-at-the-rr-hall-of-fame-ceremonies/

  38. In response to John yet again: All of the info I shared is publicly known via interviews and each of the member’s books, as well as CK Lendt’s KISS & Sell book. I’ve also met and/or interviewed just about every one of the members, and I had friends on the inside who slipped me some details, so yeah, I have a bit more depth of knowledge on the subject matter.

    Now certainly, as I acknowledged, Ace & Peter did sign deals that weren’t equitable, but they also were being hardballed. It was pretty much take it or leave it proposition. That said, G&P could have fully lived up to their obligations, and not fudged numbers and failed to fully compensate A&P as agreed. In Peter’s book in particular, he notes that he had an auditor come in to check the books, and ended up settling for pennies on the dollar for back revenue in order to avoid a lawsuit. So, even with a deal rigged in their favor, G&P didn’t fully live up to it. So, we can argue whether the contracts were fair or not, but the net result is those contracts weren’t complied with.

  39. Awesome post, Eddie. I agree that no performance makes the second best option and my heart rate is now closer to normal. Thanks for the update!

  40. I saw KISS on the disco dynasty tour…haven’t sen them since nor do I actually keep up with their latest albums or current tours.they were on axstv the other day and it was a lame show to me, but again I’m not a huge fan of theirs’.they are one of several bands that should call it quits.peter and ace I never view them as one of the greatest in any list to me theyre average players.paul and gene average players but business minded.for those kiss army fans wanting a one-off show I can see/read your compassion,i agree it’s one show not a tour.one performace one song then play with the current band members’(HEART DID)…and they had a bad split,hard feelings between them too. congrats to kiss making it and even though they have said it means nothing to them *WINNING ANY AWARD means something…it would’ve been cool to hear *Nuthin’ To Lose one last time by the four but I always have the classic *KISS Alive Album…regardless if it’s overdubbed what band doesn’t overdub a performace via record or live…

  41. This is about the FUTURE for G&P. As Paul has suggested before, he wants KISS to continue on even after G&P retire. (I think Gene shopped this around as a reality show, too.) “Kiss is bigger than any of us” kinda talk. So yeah, G&P are trying to set it up so THEY will profit from any future “tribute band” activity–and we all know the tribute bands will come back. So rather than chase them down and demanding money, G&P can literally own the production and continue cashing in on the makeup and costumes. —— So performing with only the original lineup, especially in makeup, would undermine the new, lucrative image of KISS they’re trying to create–a “legacy” concept that transcends whoever’s under the makeup. They want KISS to be the Harlem Globetrotters of rock and roll.

  42. I am amazed that people can not get over the fact that Peter and Ace are recovering addicts. Um yes people who do drugs make bad decisions… Especially contracts and settlements. Pete and Ace made bad decisions. So because they screwed up thirty years ago, they have no right to be acknowledged for their contribution to the band they wrote and played music for? I mean Beth was by Peter and it was a big hit, NYC groove was on Ace solo KISS album … Ace and Peter invented their makeup… So that they USED to do drugs affects any of that? People can recover from being addicts just so everyone knows. That has no bearing on them receiving some props for their music. I really think Gene and Paul who never do drugs have hard time getting over that Ace and Peter did. Which is a complete shame

  43. Gene and Paul are a piece of CRAP. Just say it. They are money hungry, self righteous assholes. The only time you can believe a word either of them say is if they’re trying to sell you something. Then at least you know they’re trying to get your money upfront. As opposed to making believe how they are a band for the fans and that’s all they ever care about. They can talk all they want about how the band has moved on, etc etc. The FACT is that the band was playing ‘conventions’ back in 94/95 prior to the MTV unplugged sessions with Ace and Peter…..Go back and watch Gene’s face light up as Peter is signing Beth. Nodding that knowing nod of his that he’s about to cash in royally again. The other FACT is that the band wouldn’t have any career at all with Tommy and Eric if Ace and Peter didn’t agree to be screwed over by Gene and Paul for some reunion tours. They knew exactly what they were doing by making it a requirement that Ace and Peter sell back the rights to the makeup. Now they put imposters on stage and grab your money. I could care less about Tommy and Eric, maybe I’d even buy a record or see a show if they weren’t trying to impersonate Ace and Peter. Seeing Tommy mimic Ace, even acting like he is somewhat ‘wasted’ and stumbling….come on. Tommy only knows how to do this since he played Ace in a KISS tribute band.

    I already have my tickets to the show (joined the hall of fame for the members presale) because I couldn’t wait to see the guys once more on stage. Now I’ll be happy to boo their greedy asses as loud as I can.

  44. And one other thing you can count on. If Gene can figure out how to make a buck on Ace and Peter showing up and playing with them. All four originals will play. He’ll film some behind the scenes footage, market some one of a kind DVD, t-shirts, and memorabilia.

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