Wanted to post earlier today but we had to actually upgrade our server because of all the activity on the site this weekend (thanks webmaster David for your help!). Now that Gene and Paul have weighed in on the HOF drama of the weekend we have a pretty clear picture on the eve of tickets going on sale that Kiss is not playing at all now in any form. Clearly they had to make some statement here after all the fallout from Ace on my radio show Friday night and Peter’s statement yesterday. So now that all sides have weighed in here is MY analysis of all of this for those interested as far as what has gone on.
Gene and Paul were never going to play with Ace and Peter at this event. Just wasn’t ever going to happen. Look no further than Paul’s official Twitter a few weeks ago when he essentially said as much. Ace, Peter, and MANY members of the HOF I spoke to over the last few weeks confirmed they wanted to play with the current band and had no intention of an originals reunion. The Kiss statement saying “we don’t believe the memory will be enhanced” in playing with Ace and Peter really translates to Gene and Paul not wanting to open a can of worms, and honestly likely not thinking they can cut it with them anymore. They know this can’t be a jump up and jam thing. They need to rehearse and prepare to do it right. That would require them reconnecting for a few days. That opens cans of worms so to speak. So they were never going to go down those roads with the original band. In their view too complicated and just like at MTV unplugged, it would make it very hard to continue to sell what they are now doing afterwards. Ace, Peter and the HOF didn’t just make it up that they didn’t want to play with them. Perhaps they would have allowed Ace and Peter to come up at the group jam at the end, but Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace alone on stage playing a song was something Gene and Paul were never going to allow or have happen. To them it’s complicated on way too many levels. So once Ace and Peter released their statements Gene & Paul’s only way out of the backlash was to check out of playing all together which they did today. And you know what? No matter how this was arrived at it is the best available scenario given they won’t play with the original band. Since the original four are being inducted out of respect no performance is better than Ace and Peter having to watch the current band. I think this also makes it likely (but far from 100%) that everyone at least shows up and speaks. So what we hopefully end up with is a photo op of the original guys, a few words from each, then some sort of all star Kiss tribute band or video package. The HOF will now have to figure that out. But I can tell you this is a victory of sorts for Ace and Peter who now may attend and will not feel dissed having to see personas they created playing at their induction. But it is clear, and I have confirmed with many over the last month involved with the HOF, that Gene and Paul would not play with only the original band at this event. The HOF wanted that, Ace and Peter were up for it (as Ace said on my show when first announced as going in) but Gene and Paul would not have it and wanted to play with the current band. Again, Paul said “very unlikely” over a month ago on Twitter when asked about a reunion and “no way” to them wearing makeup. So where this is all coming from should not be a surprise. It’s pretty clear and honestly it is Gene & Paul’s right at this point, even if you disagree strongly with it. They own Kiss like it or not. To me anything else is spin and damage control at this point. But again, to me, this is the second best scenario given only the originals are being inducted. At least it gets them all there hopefully!
A few other things; do Gene and Paul attend? They say in their statement they will “celebrate” the induction but that doesn’t always mean show up. I would assume they would, but none of the original four have clear cut said yet “we will be there”.
Clearly Gene and Paul are annoyed (and you can make the case rightfully so) that only the original four are being inducted. However their statement left out Vinnie Vincent (a HUGE contributor to Kiss comeback of the 80’s) and the late Mark St John. We all know Kiss and Vinnie had their issues, but if they truly wanted to celebrate KISStory completely Vinnie would certainly at least deserve an invite and mention? I have said all along I think it had to be only the original guys or EVERYONE who was in Kiss to do this right. Kind of hard to pick and choose. The HOF decided only originals. So when they said in their statement “the entire history”, they are still leaving out some gaps.
And that’s another issue. Kiss in their statement continue to allude to all the success they have had without Ace and Peter. Relatively speaking that is true. But you can not discount the fact that the bands biggest periods by far were with the original band. The 70’s were most iconic, then the 90’s reunion was equally huge. Who knows if Ace and Peter didn’t do the reunion tour in ’96 if there would even still be a Kiss today? Reunions happen because bands need them and they are much bigger than whatever that band is doing at the time. Nobody does a reunion tour because it means less people or interest. Current Kiss does very well in festivals and some parts of the world. But to say in America the band is as big as ever (as I have heard stated) is just false. The last full US tour was a CO HEADLINE. You don’t go 50/50 with another band unless you need the help. On the flipside it is without question true that Gene and Paul have kept this alive for 40 years and steered the ship (with good and bad decisions in my view), so without that commitment who knows what would have happened? There were several versions of Kiss. I was a fan of many. But the simple truth is nothing was or will be bigger than the original four guys. That is just fact if you really take in the history.
If the HOF had decided to induct all the members then for sure the case could be made that everyone plays. But they decided to induct the four that started it all only. It sucks for us fans that the powers that be here wouldn’t make that work for at least a song or two, but I think where we arrived at today with no performance is the second best scenario. Now let’s see if they all show, who does the induction (I know but can’t say!) and what the HOF does as a tribute. It’s been a wild weekend since Ace started this with his announcement on my radio show late this past Friday night (audio on the home page) and where we go from here should be interesting as well. I’ll be live on SiriusXM channel 39 6-10P ET tomorrow and will take your calls. That’s MY take, look forward to yours here on the site or on the radio.
Oh, one last thing. Much has been made about the impact all of this will have on sales to the event tomorrow. The timing here was key since MANY were going to come from around the world assuming a performance by the original band one last time. So clearly it’s great those people now know the deal. I think it will for sure change the dynamic of the crowd makeup in the building that night. But as long as the original four show up I’d say a good showing from Kiss fans will be there. But nothing like if it was a reunion performance. Also remember there are many other bands being honored that night. Nirvana and Springsteen also have pretty big bases. So I suspect ticket sales will be just fine when that is all factored in. I’m sure there will be much more to discuss. Never dull being a Kiss fan!
185 Responses
In response to John, above: You have made some assertions that are not the case, particularly with regard to Peter and why he didn’t play on (most of) Dynasty and Unmasked. Peter wasn’t really able to play on Dynasty because of problems he had after car crash. He was not physically able to do it, although he did perform on his particular track. Unmasked was a different story; he had left the band by that point and went in to record his ‘Out of Control’ record.
As for the rest…yes, Ace and Peter DID sign the offers they received from Gene and Paul to leave, and then come back. But both admitted they had managerial and legal representation that was less than stellar, and it resulted in less-than-equitable arrangements. And, it’s entirely possible they didn’t get their proper pieces of “ancillary revenues” from the merchandising, as was agreed to. Peter in particular outlined some of this in his book. So, not everything was done fairly, which was the fault of all concerned. Gene and Paul could have saved themselves a LOT of grief if they’d been more fair with the revenue, and not treated Ace and Peter like lackeys.
In general, not enough emphasis is placed on Gene and Paul’s own mistakes, and the fact they have had control/ego issues of their own, magnified over the many years with self-aggrandizement and egomania. The fact remains that the biggest periods in the band’s history are with the OG 4 and in particular, the current post-reunion licensing/merchandizing juggernaut could not have been possible had Ace & Peter not returned, and the four iconic images reconstituted. In short, there would not be any “Hello KISSy” plush dolls with the barefaced mugs of the non-makeup KISS. Gene and Paul do deserve credit for leveraging the image into a global Brand, and making shrewd deals to line their pockets, but NONE of it happens without the Reunion.
Wow, apparently Ace knows all about Kiss. He must have been there when it all happened.
Ace, in regards to representation of Ace & Peter….they hired those lawyers, and didn’t have to take their advice. That’s my problem with a lot of that argument. Still their decision.
Nobody questions their contribution to the beginnings of the band. I think we all get it. But, a long history of bad decision making is the root of their problem. Could Gene &Paul handle things differently? Absolutely. But, Ace and Peter left and took the cash…if they stayed, as CK Lendt suggested Ace should have its a whole different game. I’m not sure why it is Gene & Pauls’s responsibility to continue to bear the brunt of their bad decisions. Again, both could have stayed after the reunion. Only Peter did briefly.
They are all big boys…
So the lawyer says…hey Ace and Pete, if you sell your likeness i.e makeup to the band it’ll be a wonderful business decision. Now, what lawyer in their right mind would recommend that…further what person in their right mind would agree to it. Clearly either the lawyer or the parties agreeing aren’t dealing with a full deck.
Or the ‘lawyers’ were secretly having their palms greased by Gene.
With all you people bitching and whining about this issue, you’re empowering the RARHOF and giving it credibility. Hmmmm I vaguely remember people saying it’s such a sham and a joke. If it is such a sham and a joke, why should anyone care who performs and who doesn’t? And I don’t want to hear, “well, it’s the only thing out there..blah blah”. Trunk, you and all these other overly- opinionated know-it-alls just gave this ridiculous elitist organization credibility. Bravo!!
George
As much as you try. Nobody on here cares what you think and nobody is going to engage with you. You should go see if you can get some attention from your wife? kid ? mom ? dad ? friend ? LOL
Ahhhh I see you finally found the spell check. Good for you.
I see you’re reading my post’s……. But, then again, what else would you be doing ..
Yes I’m a big fan of comedy written by the mentally challenged. Come on, Skippy, you can do it!
The rock and roll hall of shame can kiss my ass.
I started my own rock club and inducted Kiss 30 years ago!
I’ve been a KISS fan since “Alive!” and this is just another in the many peaks and valleys of KISS. Although the last peak was the 1996 “Reunion Tour.” I for one did not want to see them trudge through “Rock and Roll all Nite” again. I’m actually looking more forward to what they say at the podium. I hope they all show up and speak. Although Paul and Gene will probably insist on a 40/40/10/10 percent split on the time permitted to speak. Somewhat ironic in that Peter sang and cowrote their biggest single, and Ace did the best KISS solo album.
Eddie, your comments make a lot of sense. Gene and Paul performing with Ace and Peter would do nothing to help the current version of KISS which obviously they are trying to push on everyone. As much as I would have loved to see the original 4 play one more time, I guess that was just wishful thinking. I really hope the original 4 will appear at the induction. The original KISS I realize is a thing of the past but I really hope that at least for a few minutes, they can share the stage and give the fans an opportunity to celebrate this event.
They can just kiss my big old hairy ass what a bunch of babys